The Census Mentioned in Luke - Fact or Fiction?

[TRANSPONDER]

Interesting post, Fullback..

continued...Ok..now about the Augustan taxation, I don't know what Josephus has to say about it, but I have read a bit of history about Augustus and his taxation work as a consul and, after he defeated Anthony and became emperor, his reform of the taxation system and specifically making all the roman provinces kick in their whack for the running of the empire. Thus Luke's reference to the whole (Roman) world being taxed is fair enough - common knowledge in the Roman world.

But at that time it didn't apply to Judea which was a client kingdom, not a Roman province. That came later after Archelaus was deposed and Qurinus appointed to assess the populace for taxation. While one could say that was a belated application of the Augustan tax, Luke is a bit...glib, in relating the two and of course made it possible for inerrantists to argue that it was a secret tax carried out in Herodian judea.

I'm not sure what your point about travel is intended to show. People journeyed by cart, foot, donkey or horse and Jews visited Jerusalem regularly for festivals at the temple. Travel as such is not the issue - it is traveling to Bethlehem (someone posted that archaeology suggests the place was virtually a ruin at the time) dragging a nine-month - gone wife for no good reason - other than to get Jesus born in Bethlehem.

I can see why Luke thought the census provided the answer but he couldn't have known (nor could Theophilus, probably) that it wouldn't work.

[granpa]

1And it came to pass in those days, there went forth a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world be enrolled -- }2this first enrollment came to pass before Cyrenius was governor of Syria -- }3and all were going to be enrolled, each to his proper city,

Augustus is known to have taken a census of Roman citizens at least three times, in 28 BC, 8 BC, and 14

[TRANSPONDER]

I know thee not, old man: fall to thy prayers;
How ill white hairs become a fool and jester! (King Henry IV pt2.)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by granpa

Augustus is known to have taken a census of Roman citizens at least three times, in 28 BC, 8 BC, and 14

The operative words here are "Roman citizens'

Neither Joseph or Mary were Roman citizens so there would be no need for them to be registering in any of them.
Of course, the story had to have them registering, otherwise there was no reason for them to be in Bethlehem where the man-god could be born and thus fulfil the 'prophecy'.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!!

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by [granpa

Augustus is known to have taken a census of Roman citizens at least three times, in 28 BC, 8 BC, and 14

Look...my response was a bit impolite I know, but the point is really covered in the earlier posts. The Augustan taxation is well known and so is the later census of Qurinus and none of that is the problem with Luke's nativity.

Just tossing in a reference to the Augustan taxation as though it validated the unworkable and contradictory nativities of Luke and Matthew is really ...well at this stage of the argument, it makes me headslap and burst into tears.