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[quote=gizmo980;1592073]I'm sorry, but how exactly does that answer why Atheists can marry? My best friend got married last year without a clergy member, not in a church/temple, and with no mention of God whatsoever... since they rejected God's "presence" in their marriage ceremony, do you consider it null? And yes, they are a man & woman.[quote]
It is a legal union. God ordained marriage. Man has changed it.
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If you don't think marriage has or should evolve, are you okay with being considered a man's property (if you're a married woman)?? I certainly am NOT, so thank goodness you're wrong about society not evolving... God and religion may remain constant, but the world is changing around them - like it or not.
If you mean a biblical version of a man's property wherein my husband is to love me as Christ loved the church? YES... YES... YES! And I am and do submit to my husband in all things Godly. IF my husband was not a child of God, I would still submit to him, but since I am to submit to Christ first and formost, I would not submit to anything that God would not approve of.
"Throughout history, Jews have remained firmly rooted in Jewish tradition, even as we learned much from our encounters with other cultures. Nevertheless, since its earliest days, Reform Judaism has asserted that a Judaism frozen in time is an heirloom, not a living fountain. The great contribution of Reform Judaism is that it has enabled the Jewish people to introduce innovation while preserving tradition, to embrace diversity while asserting commonality, to affirm beliefs without rejecting those who doubt, and to bring faith to sacred texts without sacrificing critical scholarship."
Mt 15:3
He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Mt 15:6 -
So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
Col 2:8 -
See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.
But that just doesn't make any sense. Why would a god condemn his or her people to a fiery torment because they indulged in the free will s/he gives them?
It's like if I own a kitten. Then I put some tuna on a plate. Then I tell the kitten (who obviously can't understand) that if it eats the tuna, I'll kill it. Well, we'll run it through a few translations first, from Russian back to English via Babelfish so it's truly garbled. Then, when the kitten finally eats the tuna, I chop its head off.
Weird, eh.
You have free will to go sit on a train track right? Is that good for you? I guess as long as a train is not coming it's ok. How about if God told you that if you sit on that train track you would die without Him? You really wanted to sit on the track... the first time you did it you didn't die... so... if it was something you wanted to do again you probably would... until one day.... times up and you are standing before God on the day of judgement. Would you even have to ask the reason why after he passed judgement? God gave us free will. To either choose Him or chose the god of this world. If you choose God, he has given you a guide. It is up to you whether you chose to follow it or not... Him or not. If you choose the god of this world, you don't have to follow the bible. You can just make it up as you go along.
Wow... that is amazing how God writes in His word in the OT about divorce. De 24:1 is just one vs. So, why would there be something about divorcement if marriage didn't exsist? Or if I could just say I was married, why couldn't I just say I was divorced? Why did they need to give a bill (legal document) of divorcement?
Because when they first came up with these rules they couldn’t write yet? So in the beginning people could proclaim that they were married or divorced. But when the bible was eventually written a bill was needed because they could (obviously) write now.
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If you mean a biblical version of a man's property wherein my husband is to love me as Christ loved the church? YES... YES... YES! And I am and do submit to my husband in all things Godly. IF my husband was not a child of God, I would still submit to him, but since I am to submit to Christ first and formost, I would not submit to anything that God would not approve of.
So if a wife doesn’t want to have children, her husband (whether he is Christian or not) can just rape her because God commanded man to go forth and multiply?
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If you choose God, he has given you a guide. It is up to you whether you chose to follow it or not... Him or not.
When you believe in an afterlife you have no free choice. You either do what God tells you to do or you'll end up in hell for all eternity. Not much of a choice here.
It would be the same as having a gun pointed at me while the robber asks me politely to donate him all the money that I have on me. He also tells me that I have a choice not to give him my money, but then he will kill me and take it anyway.
Mt 15:3
He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Mt 15:6 -
So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
Col 2:8 -
See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.
Yes, those are YOUR beliefs, just as I shared MINE... what exactly is your point?
You have free will to go sit on a train track right? Is that good for you? I guess as long as a train is not coming it's ok. How about if God told you that if you sit on that train track you would die without Him? You really wanted to sit on the track... the first time you did it you didn't die... so... if it was something you wanted to do again you probably would... until one day.... times up and you are standing before God on the day of judgement. Would you even have to ask the reason why after he passed judgement? God gave us free will. To either choose Him or chose the god of this world. If you choose God, he has given you a guide. It is up to you whether you chose to follow it or not... Him or not. If you choose the god of this world, you don't have to follow the bible. You can just make it up as you go along.
Since we can't physically see God and must grasp His very existance by faith alone, how is it really a "choice" if someone simply doesn't believe He exists?
I just feel compelled to say that his is one of the best posts I have ever seen in these forums! And I feel compelled to ask my fellow Christians...what say you to the very, VERY valid points made here? How can anyone even argue or dispute what has been said here?
I also agree with Mrs Garrissons post. Very valid points..
If you choose the god of this world, you don't have to follow the bible. You can just make it up as you go along.
This is one claim made by many people of different religions that really bothers me. Do you think that I, as an atheist, am so vapid, free-floating, devoid of rationality that I truly accept whatever sounds good to me, that I just make up the perimeters of my life as I proceed through? That's preposterous, and to claim otherwise certainly, I feel, shows a certain amount of disrespect for my level of intelligence and yours, as well.
So how does that differ from the arguments about gay marriages? Or do you also not support marriage for Atheists?
I don't know, but that is a good point. I suppose changing marriage in whatever fashion, as long as there is one p*** and one v*****, is okay.
Last edited by Hoosier; 09-28-2007 at 11:40 AM..
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So if a wife doesn’t want to have children, her husband (whether he is Christian or not) can just rape her because God commanded man to go forth and multiply? 
Not much of a choice here.
