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The question is NOT whether God exists or not . . . it is whether nature is God or an inscrutable indifferent something that "just is." The debate has always been about the characteristics and attributes of Nature (God or indefinable whatever). THAT is not remotely similar to your other favorite straw men (tooth fairiy, Santa Claus . .. etc.)
I think that is a debate you are having with yourself.
Everyone else is debating the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, supernatural being. Your question is off-topic in this thread.
That is the point I am trying to make. It is illogical to argue a diety does or does not exist.
If I claim that I am God, and I get many of your friends and family to believe that I am God, would it be illogical to argue that I am not God?
The same type of argument that supports the existence of God can be used to support the argument that I am God in disguise. Because if I am God, surely I can beem messages to the internet. YOu can't prove 100% that I am not God typing this message. So would it be illogical to argue against that proposition, especially if your friends and family believed that I was, and were dedicating their lives to worshiping me?
If you want to speak logically. There can be no argument for or against a God that would be deemed sound because the truth of the premise can not be ascertained. It will always be mere conjecture, or at best a valid argument (the truth of which cannot be known). Unless of course a God suddenly appeared before us and announced himself.
If you want to speak logically. There can be no argument for or against a God that would be deemed sound because the truth of the premise can not be ascertained. It will always be mere conjecture, or at best a valid argument (the truth of which cannot be known). Unless of course a God suddenly appeared before us and announced himself.
Sorry, but you're wrong. If God appeared from the Heavens, people would denounce Him. It would not be God. It would be our imagination, they will claim - it would not be real. Face it, If God appeared from the Heavens people would not believe it's him.
To this day, there are people that still think we've never been on the moon despite the media coverage, the pictures, and so on. People STILL think this. These, and many many more, would not believe a God that shows himself. Again, God does not NEED to appear before us and announce himself. WHERE in the Bible does it SAY this? It does not. NEXT?
Sorry, but you're wrong. If God appeared from the Heavens, people would denounce Him. It would not be God. It would be our imagination, they will claim - it would not be real. Face it, If God appeared from the Heavens people would not believe it's him.
To this day, there are people that still think we've never been on the moon despite the media coverage, the pictures, and so on. People STILL think this. These, and many many more, would not believe a God that shows himself. Again, God does not NEED to appear before us and announce himself. WHERE in the Bible does it SAY this? It does not. NEXT?
You're right people would not believe it, but I was speaking hypothetically. The only way that anyone could have a sound argument for a God would be if there was tangible proof. Whether people believe it or whatever is said in the bible is irrelevant to my point.
I think that is a debate you are having with yourself.
Everyone else is debating the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, supernatural being. Your question is off-topic in this thread.
That is your opinion . . . the OP doesn't specify ANY God . . . it is the generic term. Of course the attributes are in debate . . . they always will be. Those attributes are in question and are part of the debate . . . but they have NOTHING to do with whether God EXISTS or not . . . which is the more generic issue the OP requested evidence against.
Originally Posted by MysticPhD ...but they have NOTHING to do with whether God EXISTS or not . . . which is the more generic issue the OP requested evidence against.
This all gets back to the communication issue again. Most people, other than you, know that the OP is asking for proof there there is no omnipotent God of the bible. You are the only one who seems confused by the question, wanting instead to turn the conversation into, "is God really just another word for nature?"
This all gets back to the communication issue again. Most people, other than you, know that the OP is asking for proof there there is no omnipotent God of the bible. You are the only one who seems confused by the question, wanting instead to turn the conversation into, "is God really just another word for nature?"
Cute editing job . . . remember the actual context? "the OP doesn't specify ANY God . . . it is the generic term. Of course the attributes are in debate . . . they always will be. Those attributes are in question and are part of the debate . . . but they have NOTHING to do with whether God EXISTS or not"
Nowhere in the OP do I see ANY specifics whatsoever . . . no omni's . . . no supernatural . . . nothing. Revealing that the TRUE debate with atheists is over the GENERIC existence of God bothers you because it is impossible to be so smug and positive without your default being accepted as "No God" . . . which is NOT remotely scientific or neutral.
I just came across this forum and have read every single post here and would like to post my only reply.
Oh gods... Sorry, but that's an awful first post, from an atheist perspective.
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First, God already has proved himself through the Bible. The Bible has been tested again and again for years and years and has still lived up to what it is.
What do you mean "tested"? If you're talking of prophecies, I disagree. If you're talking of verification by outside sources discovered by historians, I also disagree.
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Even IF God ascended from the Heavens and said "Here I am", Atheists still wouldn't believe God is real because they don't want, in my opinion, to believe in a God.
Your opinion. I personally want there to be a God. Ultimate justice? Absolute morals? Eternal life in paradise? Sounds good to me. If the existence of God was ever proved, I'd be in tears, frankly.
But please. Tell us that we just want to live a sinful life, or that we hate God. Atheists love that.
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If God really did come from Heaven to earth, non-believers would say it's an illusion, or their brain playing tricks on them, just like they do NDE's.
Up to a point. Let me put it like this: if a pink unicorn jumped out of your computer screen, would your first reaction be to fall on your knees and worship it? I know mine would be to check my coffee for drugs, ask somebody else if they see the same thing, look for hidden wires...
But if the vision stands up to all these tests, I would become a believer.
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So God has no reason to prove himself to anyone. Read the Bible. WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD must prove himself to begin with? End of story.
No, God doesn't have to. It would be nice if he did, though, and incredibly unfair if he didn't but still threw unbelievers into some sort of hell.
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Secondly, people are questioning why evil and hate exist if a loving God existed. Again, WHERE in the Bible does it say this world will be evil and hate free? No where.
True. It's just an assumption than an omnipotent, omniscient, loving God would not allow evil to exist.
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Thirdly, why are people blind, disabled, starving if God existed? Again, WHERE in the Bible does it say God must heal the blind or disabled? No where!! If I shoot my eye out with a gun I don't say "God heal my eye" and I have another eye - or if I am out of food say "God feed me".
Well, to be fair, the Bible has much to say about the power of prayer - which is not validated by experiment. Why Won't God Heal Amputees?
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Fourthly, I have two reasons to believe how we came here. How did us as humans, develop on a planet that has Trees, Water, Oxygen that we can breathe in and out to..breathe in the first place, have all the essential needs for life?
You've got so little understanding of the theory of evolution that I'm not going to bother answering that one.
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In order to paint a picture, you need a painter. So who made the painter (God)? To answer this : watch this
Oh no. Not a VenomFangX video.
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Lastly, lets say I'm wrong, and Atheists are right. I have nothing to lose. If I die and that's it..then that's it. I wouldn't care because I wouldn't be anything. If God is real, then Atheists will have Hell to pay..literally.
Pascal's Wager now. You're really not making yourself any friends in the atheist community. Not a week goes by without somebody trying to Wager us. That argument has been done to death.
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And, Christians too - because many consider themselves Christians but are out drinking, doing drugs, getting in fights, and so on. You see, that's what happens when a child these days is told they were made from Ooze, monkeys, or birds. They think they're monkeys, so they go out and get in fights, shoplift, steal, etc.
I live in Europe, where evolution is accepted by most. For some reason we haven't become a wasteland full of criminal gangs. Go figure.
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,733,455 times
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
As ParkTwain stated, the burden is on the believer, or creator of the hypothesis... I never did well in science courses, but that's a pretty basic concept. For instance, if I said "Purple aliens exist, because I have faith" - would you feel the need, or even have the ability, to prove they DON'T exist? Or would you expect ME to show you proof they do?
i want to see them aliens now!!! or it's just scripture or thin air
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or it's just scripture or thin air
