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Old 07-07-2012, 04:05 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,063,228 times
Reputation: 1359

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I think: The REASON for snowflakes is Invisible magic fairies intelligently crafting them, or its natural, you chose.

 
Old 07-07-2012, 04:43 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,722,171 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I believe that it has validity to make such claim.
The DNA strand is so much more complicated that the most complex computer system and yet it is acceptable to not believe a designer was involved.
The dna strand itself is not more complicated than a computer system. That is false.

It is made of five elements, which are arranged into three major compounds, sugar, nucleotides, and phosphate groups.

A computer system has far more parts.


Crystals are frequently must more complicated chemically and similarly in terms of shape as many organic molecules including DNA. They form naturally if the conditions are correct.

Mineral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Example of a more chemically complex NATURALLY occurring molecule.
Hanksite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
I am not making a factual claim that a designer was involved. I am claiming that reason, logic, and probablities do give support to the probably existence of a designer, a hypothesis. Take care.
Based on what? The above statements are not based in logic or even fact.
 
Old 07-07-2012, 05:03 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,493 posts, read 4,550,836 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
The dna strand itself is not more complicated than a computer system. That is false.

It is made of five elements, which are arranged into three major compounds, sugar, nucleotides, and phosphate groups.

A computer system has far more parts.


Crystals are frequently must more complicated chemically and similarly in terms of shape as many organic molecules including DNA. They form naturally if the conditions are correct.

Mineral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Example of a more chemically complex NATURALLY occurring molecule.
Hanksite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Based on what? The above statements are not based in logic or even fact.
The first part I say that even leading scientist do agree with the higher complexity of DNA strand and logic involved. I suppose we will agree to disagree here.

On the second part I say that the complexity of design in nature does give the appearance of intelligence behind it. Nothing wrong with that. Logic is not out of the realm of possibilities there. Fact? The only fact I claim is that there is complexity in our natural systems, no more no less. From there I use logic to say that such complexity does merit enough to go further and see if it has a designer or not. If I you and I find a simple knife with some inscriptions on it and I tell you that it by random it became to exist you will probably say I am crazy. Now, the amoeba is much complex than a knife with all its systems and I cannot call you crazy because you say it the design happened at random. Maybe it is a bad example because you may now want to tell me that a knife is more complex that an amoeba. Well see. Take care.
 
Old 07-07-2012, 07:27 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,722,171 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
The first part I say that even leading scientist do agree with the higher complexity of DNA strand and logic involved. I suppose we will agree to disagree here.
Ah, appeal to authority.

Anyway, you can agree to whatever makes you feel like you are not wrong. But that does not change the fact that you are wrong.

DNA is not some special chemical based on it chemistry. It is a relatively normal organic compound. What it is is functionally complex. Again, different than chemical complex.

Quote:
On the second part I say that the complexity of design in nature does give the appearance of intelligence behind it.
And you have nothing on which to base that claim.

Quote:
Nothing wrong with that. Logic is not out of the realm of possibilities there.
Maybe you should understand logic before you use it. Actually the same could go for a bit about chemistry too. What you are trying to do is deduce an intelligent designed by looking for something that could not be created by natural processes. Well, complication is not absent via natural processes. Again, many complex chemical compounds occur naturally.

Continue to ignore this, as you have to since your complexity argument falls apart by the existence of complex natural occurring non-biological compounds.

Quote:
Fact? The only fact I claim is that there is complexity in our natural systems, no more no less. From there I use logic to say that such complexity does merit enough to go further and see if it has a designer or not. If I you and I find a simple knife with some inscriptions on it and I tell you that it by random it became to exist you will probably say I am crazy.
A knife with "inscriptions"? First, anything with human language on it is an entirely different realm than a chemical reaction. So don't go pretending you know anything about what I would or would not call you.


Quote:
Now, the amoeba is much complex than a knife with all its systems and I cannot call you crazy because you say it the design happened at random. Maybe it is a bad example because you may now want to tell me that a knife is more complex that an amoeba. Well see. Take care.
BS, I never said it was random. It is not random at all. Evolution is the ultimate in trial and error. Those that fail do not reproduce. That is not random.

Logic failure as well as factual failures. At least you are consistent.
 
Old 07-07-2012, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,891,640 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by distraff View Post
What do you think of the design argument that the complexity in life indicates design?
Complexity is subjective, there is no objective standard for determining what is complex and what is not. It is an attribute of the observer and thier ability to understand and comprehend what is being observed. It is NOT an attribute of the subject being observed. For these reasons, complexity fails as an argument for design.
 
Old 07-08-2012, 05:18 AM
 
126 posts, read 81,014 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by distraff View Post
What do you think of the design argument that the complexity in life indicates design?
It's no different to me than "I don't understand it so...magic did it!"
 
Old 07-08-2012, 06:59 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,962,071 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzly Friddle View Post
Actually, we do know how evolution works, and we have "seen it work". You, too can have this knowledge. it is readily available to anyone who wants to learn about it.

Your post shows such a lack of understanding of the subject that I don't know why you bother commenting at all.
Do you have actual video of single celled amoebas changing into fish then chimps then humans?

What I find interesting is Jesus said God created the original pair male and female.

Mar 10:6 Yet from the beginning of creation God makes them male and female.

He didn't say God makes the amoebas and these evolved into Adam and Eve. At least that is how I see it. I realize you most likely don't believe any of what Jesus said and I respect that.
 
Old 07-08-2012, 07:10 AM
 
Location: The Land of Oz.
267 posts, read 216,407 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I believe that it has validity to make such claim.
The DNA strand is so much more complicated that the most complex computer system and yet it is acceptable to not believe a designer was involved.

I am not making a factual claim that a designer was involved. I am claiming that reason, logic, and probablities do give support to the probably existence of a designer, a hypothesis. Take care.
With that sort of thinking you are in fact qualified to write a bible or quran. The ancients who didn't understand all that was around them, made up stories in explanation of those things they didn't understand and those writings became those wonderful books.
 
Old 07-08-2012, 08:54 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,722,171 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Do you have actual video of single celled amoebas changing into fish then chimps then humans?
That isn't what scientists say happened during evolution. So NO.



Quote:
He didn't say God makes the amoebas and these evolved into Adam and Eve. At least that is how I see it. I realize you most likely don't believe any of what Jesus said and I respect that.
Ok, well we at least KNOW what he said. You don't seem to have the slightest inkling of what evolution is and more importantly is not.
 
Old 07-08-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,125,817 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Do you have actual video of single celled amoebas changing into fish then chimps then humans?

What I find interesting is Jesus said God created the original pair male and female.

Mar 10:6 Yet from the beginning of creation God makes them male and female.

He didn't say God makes the amoebas and these evolved into Adam and Eve. At least that is how I see it. I realize you most likely don't believe any of what Jesus said and I respect that.
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