Sciense is a religion by itself. (salvation, hell, prophecies, faith)
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I am not aware of any concrete scientific explanation for the placebo effect. It flies in the face of atheist reality. How in the world can the power of thought cause physical healing in our bodies? Or how can belief in a physical object itself cause real life tangible results? Yet that's exactly what is happening here. People take a sugar pill and believe that it is treatment. They experience positive physical results. Faith is a powerful force. It allows ordinary humans to do extra-ordinary things.
And most Christians, myself included, use a combination of medical help and prayer to get through physical challenges.
You are once again incorrect. Science acknowledges the power of the mind. The power comes in many forms, from the placebo effect, to the power of confidence in sporting events and public speaking, to name two examples. It does not fly in the face of atheism. Atheism is the disbelief in a god or gods. What the mind can do has no correlation with the existence of a god.
Rather than believe in a god, why not believe that a sugar pill has magic powers and will cure you. You will be using the power of your faith as medical treatment. The pill will cost you almost nothing, so you will save money at the church collection plate. And you can sleep in on Sunday mornings.
Actually, there is evidence that prayer helps in the healing process. Many of the scientific studies on the subject have been ignored because they didn't fit with the scientific ideology.
A physician named Larry Dossey even wrote a book about it:
You are once again incorrect. Science acknowledges the power of the mind. The power comes in many forms, from the placebo effect, to the power of confidence in sporting events and public speaking, to name two examples. It does not fly in the face of atheism. Atheism is the disbelief in a god or gods. What the mind can do has no correlation with the existence of a god.
Rather than believe in a god, why not believe that a sugar pill has magic powers and will cure you. You will be using the power of your faith as medical treatment. The pill will cost you almost nothing, so you will save money at the church collection plate. And you can sleep in on Sunday mornings.
Wonderful, so science acknowledges that the placebo effect exists. So what? That's not the same as science offering proof to explain exactly how this mechanism works. If we knew then it would be a huge benefit to mankind to teach us how to turn on our physical self healing capabilities. Your post is merely another demonstration of blind faith in science. You quickly cover up any unexplained mystery with a vague unproven scientific explanation. For example, all NDEs are hallucinations. All ghost encounters are halluincations etc.... That's not PROOF, that's broad stroking, and it's not being intellectually honest.
The problem I have with atheists is when you come on board proudly proclaiming as FACT that Christianity is a myth and God does not exist. That's not the same as holding a simple "disbelief".
Wonderful, so science acknowledges that the placebo effect exists. So what? That's not the same as science offering proof to explain exactly how this mechanism works. If we knew then it would be a huge benefit to mankind to teach us how to turn on our physical self healing capabilities. Your post is merely another demonstration of blind faith in science. You quickly cover up any unexplained mystery with a vague unproven scientific explanation. For example, all NDEs are hallucinations. All ghost encounters are halluincations etc.... That's not PROOF, that's broad stroking, and it's not being intellectually honest.
The problem I have with atheists is when you come on board proudly proclaiming as FACT that Christianity is a myth and God does not exist. That's not the same as holding a simple "disbelief".
You guys come onboard and tell us, atheist, that we're "rebellious" and are "spiritually blind", in essence telling us that what we believe(or its lack there of) is a myth and does not exist; so chalk it up to what's good for the goose is good for the.....well, you know the rest
Wonderful, so science acknowledges that the placebo effect exists. So what? That's not the same as science offering proof to explain exactly how this mechanism works. If we knew then it would be a huge benefit to mankind to teach us how to turn on our physical self healing capabilities. Your post is merely another demonstration of blind faith in science. You quickly cover up any unexplained mystery with a vague unproven scientific explanation. For example, all NDEs are hallucinations. All ghost encounters are halluincations etc.... That's not PROOF, that's broad stroking, and it's not being intellectually honest.
The problem I have with atheists is when you come on board proudly proclaiming as FACT that Christianity is a myth and God does not exist. That's not the same as holding a simple "disbelief".
Actually, we do know a fair bit about the process behind the placebo effect. Here's a paper on it.
If you walk down the self help aisle at a bookstore, you'll notice there's an entire industry devoted to teaching people how to turn on that self healing capability.
Remove this man from the courts. He's not mentally fit to stand trial!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD39
Yes, and atheists worship science blindly.
Another blindingly great quote from our auto-denier! Showing once again his vast lack of education and understanding. BTW, TWD, atheists are not all scientists., but rather by their own choosing & obviously higher practical IQs, they are vastly more open to logic, even to now-observed ripples in the space-time continuum, as well as the value of constantly updated reseearch and improved methods.
You folks, on the other hand, are firmly entrapped on your own mental Flat Earth. You prove it with each and every post! You demand a constant unchanging world, which has, Im sad to have to tell you, simply not the case. Do you really not see the endless changes in the universe, our own world, and so on, occurring? OK then: you must be as mentally and functionally blind as a mindless cave bat!
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD39
A discovery is made that is refuted by another discovery. There are very few concrete undisputable facts in medical science. One recent example is the long held notion that high cholesterol directly causes heart disease is now called into question. Science certainly can not explain the placebo effect. But my faith in Christ can. Now who is the blind one?
And prayer most certainly can result in cancer disappearing immediately. Science can only respond that this is somehow normal.
Yes, in fact ,we can and have explained that biochemical changes, which are in fact measurable in our brains, do change under stress (adrenaline ) joy (melatonin), and so on...
...which are, in fact, present, measured, documented and accounted for.
Please do cite your claimed case for prayer-induced cessation of a terminal cancer. This I've got to see.
FACT: It's you who chooses, based on intransigent and purposeful ignorance, to assure us it's all under some Mayan-age Golden God entity. Which has, I'm afraid, refused to EVER show up and confirm his holiness. Plus, all that nonsense you attribute to him has been CATEGORICALLY debunked. Totally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD39
I am not aware of any concrete scientific explanation for the placebo effect. It flies in the face of atheist reality. How in the world can the power of thought cause physical healing in our bodies? Or how can belief in a physical object itself cause real life tangible results? Yet that's exactly what is happening here. People take a sugar pill and believe that it is treatment. They experience positive physical results. Faith is a powerful force. It allows ordinary humans to do extra-ordinary things.
And most Christians, myself included, use a combination of medical help and prayer to get through physical challenges.
You are not aware? You? When, pray tell, did you last find and read "The Journal of Biological Chemistry"?
Wonderful, so science acknowledges that the placebo effect exists. So what? That's not the same as science offering proof to explain exactly how this mechanism works. If we knew then it would be a huge benefit to mankind to teach us how to turn on our physical self healing capabilities.
Your post is merely another demonstration of blind faith in science. You quickly cover up any unexplained mystery with a vague unproven scientific explanation. For example, all NDEs are hallucinations. All ghost encounters are halluincations etc.... That's not PROOF, that's broad stroking, and it's not being intellectually honest.
The problem I have with atheists is when you come on board proudly proclaiming as FACT that Christianity is a myth and God does not exist. That's not the same as holding a simple "disbelief".
Blind faith, huh? Your vast and entrenched impatience is showing. It's not the duty of science to teach how the world works, all of it (like your Godly version...) conveniently and absolutely explained as of today's date! And unchangeable in light of newer, better findings. Btw, rarely do later understandings completely deny older ideas. Rather, they usually refine them. See: Darwin's amazing insights despite that he didn't even know about mutational & reproducing DNA & RNA: he only knew something of that ilk had to be operating: it made LOGICAL (look it up..) sense.
You attempt to debunk it all based on a fabulously incorrect understanding of how and why scienctific examination works as well as it now does.
Well, when the masses of inarguable truth pile up right here in your face, and types such as yourself stilloaudly proclaim things that are simply untrue, what would you reasonably conclude about your professed abilities to openly review and think through new stuff?
Another Question: have you read any of the series of NDE and post-death recovery experiments and exactly how they were set up in a group of New England hospitals a few years back? OK then: What aspect (s)of their experimental design were faulty, pray tell (but also list your professional & academic credential in order for you to make cogent, sensible and reasonable critiques. Betcha don't have none-them, huh, TWD?!)
In other words, it's you who is simply blowing mental goat-farts into the wind. Admit it!
Oh don't bother to answer: you don't have the intellectual qualifications to think this one through. You're a dedicated intransigent fundy, by your own happy definition and admission.
If it were in my magical power, I'd instantly deny all of you pesky anti-knowledge types, any and all results of science, including the laptop you re using right now (or do you have one of the older 1950's IBM room-filling analog tube-type models in deference to old-style beliefs?).
This would also include the Tylenol™ pills you have probably taken, any antibiotics (Oh no! They don't prove evolution, only god's work in his usual vengeful mysterious ways!) or any and all scientifically derived (and thus biased and wrong-headed, in your mini-mind world) medical procedures that do not require leaches and bleedings and self-lashings and prayers versus concrete actions.
What a load of ongoing mental diarrhea, well steeped in brazen self-ego driven lies and purposeful mis-quotes. A truly amazing demo of your discretionary abilities! !
Hurrah for that "fab" mindset huh, TWD? At least you're never constipated, physically at least. Only mentally.
Another blindingly great quote from our auto-denier! Showing once again his vast lack of education and understanding. BTW, TWD, atheists are not all scientists., but rather by their own choosing & obviously higher practical IQs, they are vastly more open to logic, even to now-observed ripples in the space-time continuum, as well as the value of constantly updated reseearch and improved methods.
You folks, on the other hand, are firmly entrapped on your own mental Flat Earth. You prove it with each and every post! You demand a constant unchanging world, which has, Im sad to have to tell you, simply not the case. Do you really not see the endless changes in the universe, our own world, and so on, occurring? OK then: you must be as mentally and functionally blind as a mindless cave bat!
Yes, in fact ,we can and have explained that biochemical changes, which are in fact measurable in our brains, do change under stress (adrenaline ) joy (melatonin), and so on...
...which are, in fact, present, measured, documented and accounted for.
Please do cite your claimed case for prayer-induced cessation of a terminal cancer. This I've got to see.
FACT: It's you who chooses, based on intransigent and purposeful ignorance, to assure us it's all under some Mayan-age Golden God entity. Which has, I'm afraid, refused to EVER show up and confirm his holiness. Plus, all that nonsense you attribute to him has been CATEGORICALLY debunked. Totally.
You are not aware? You? When, pray tell, did you last find and read "The Journal of Biological Chemistry"?
Blind faith, huh? Your vast and entrenched impatience is showing. It's not the duty of science to teach how the world works, all of it (like your Godly version...) conveniently and absolutely explained as of today's date! And unchangeable in light of newer, better findings. Btw, rarely do later understandings completely deny older ideas. Rather, they usually refine them. See: Darwin's amazing insights despite that he didn't even know about mutational & reproducing DNA & RNA: he only knew something of that ilk had to be operating: it made LOGICAL (look it up..) sense.
You attempt to debunk it all based on a fabulously incorrect understanding of how and why scienctific examination works as well as it now does.
Well, when the masses of inarguable truth pile up right here in your face, and types such as yourself stilloaudly proclaim things that are simply untrue, what would you reasonably conclude about your professed abilities to openly review and think through new stuff?
Another Question: have you read any of the series of NDE and post-death recovery experiments and exactly how they were set up in a group of New England hospitals a few years back? OK then: What aspect (s)of their experimental design were faulty, pray tell (but also list your professional & academic credential in order for you to make cogent, sensible and reasonable critiques. Betcha don't have none-them, huh, TWD?!)
In other words, it's you who is simply blowing mental goat-farts into the wind. Admit it!
Oh don't bother to answer: you don't have the intellectual qualifications to think this one through. You're a dedicated intransigent fundy, by your own happy definition and admission.
If it were in my magical power, I'd instantly deny all of you pesky anti-knowledge types, any and all results of science, including the laptop you re using right now (or do you have one of the older 1950's IBM room-filling analog tube-type models in deference to old-style beliefs?).
This would also include the Tylenolâ„¢ pills you have probably taken, any antibiotics (Oh no! They don't prove evolution, only god's work in his usual vengeful mysterious ways!) or any and all scientifically derived (and thus biased and wrong-headed, in your mini-mind world) medical procedures that do not require leaches and bleedings and self-lashings and prayers versus concrete actions.
What a load of ongoing mental diarrhea, well steeped in brazen self-ego driven lies and purposeful mis-quotes. A truly amazing demo of your discretionary abilities! !
Hurrah for that "fab" mindset huh, TWD? At least you're never constipated, physically at least. Only mentally.
Sarcasm and insults are the product of a weak argument, and strip that away here, and you have said a whole lotta of NOTHING. I guess your form of "worship" is to come online and belittle Christians. Have you personally examined every single NDE to see if it form fits your scientific mold perfectly? Doubtful.
Sarcasm and insults are the product of a weak argument, and strip that away here, and you have said a whole lotta of NOTHING. I guess your form of "worship" is to come online and belittle Christians. Have you personally examined every single NDE to see if it form fits your scientific mold perfectly? Doubtful.
Have you examined those NDEs using a scientific formula or a religious belief one?
Science a religion? For many yes. If the scientists say it, lots of people immediately believe, with blind faith. Then if the scientists change their minds and contradict themselves, they slavishly say "Yes I believe" to whatever New BS the scientist is pushing. Climate science and evolution are two prime examples but I have others. (Remember when it was "global warming" but now they changed it to "Climate change") It applies in lots of ways. When I was younger,(early 70's) we were told that the world would be overpopulated soon and there would be mass starvation. The Carter administration(1976-1980) told the nation that there was only about 15 years of oil and gas left and that we better start conserving. Remember when we were going to all die because of the hole in the Ozone layer?, or acid rain would destroy all the forests? They used to tell us butter was bad, then they decided oleo was bad. They used to tell us eggs were bad, now they're OK. After years of this, you just turn them off.
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Remove this man from the courts. He's not mentally fit to stand trial!
