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I don't collect stamps, but I don't go onto stamp-collecting sites to taunt people that do.
Ahhhhhhh, yes. Don't you just love it when they break out that ridiculous analogy of "Atheism is a Religion as much as Not Collecting Stamps is a Hobby"?
I posted this before to address the matter...it is applicable here now as well:
As respects "Not Collecting Stamps" being a hobby: Not necessarily...if they merely didn't collect stamps.
BUT!...if they went on stamp-collecting forums and put up thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of posts criticizing them for being into stamps and saying things like, "You idiot! You paid how much for that?! It's just a page of perforated paper with ink on the front and dry adhesive on the back! How ignorant can you be?! Hope you get thousands of dollars of enjoyment looking at it!"(add smacking-head Smiley)...THEN you most certainly would have the hobby (could even be called the "religion") of not-collecting stamps.
When they quit pretending not to understand that...and have the guts to cop to what they are doing when they try to push their "Atheist Concept and Worldview" harder than Geico pushes its insurance...then Theists might be able to have a discussion with Atheists.
Though I would never want them to leave this Forum. It would create a terrible "Amusement Deficit".
Because atheism, truly, is a sort of religion also. It's a firm belief, or faith. They just say there is no god. Otherwise, they are no different. Oh, and just wait for them to have a really bad accident, or get close to dying, or be in an airplane that has some issues and is prone to falling down. I bet 99% of them will be praying like hell and fast and loud.
You can repeat that lack of faith is the same as faith, or that there are no atheists in a foxhole, but it doesn't make it so.
Many atheists have not done any better at dealing with the fact of their own mortality than have theists, but I would venture to say more have faced up to it than theists by far because they can be completely honest about it.
[sigh] however, if you insist, the right back atcha:
Theism, truly is a sort of unbelief also. It's a firm unbelief, or faith. They just say there is a god. Otherwise, they are no different.
After all, theists believe, by and large, in one god, and disbelieve in all the rest -- just as atheists do.
Why not make a separate Atheism forum apart from the Religion and Spirituality forum since they are two different things? That way the usual threads about physics and astronomy and whatever will be deleted from the Religion and Spirituality forum and vice versa with fundamentalists posting bible quotes in the Atheist forum. If they want to have their same tired arguments they can start threads in the Great Debates forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I'd go down there, but it's sacred ground. There is a "no proselytizing" warning posted so you don't get your feelings hurt.
If June is understanding correctly, there seems to appear to be some sense of discord in terms of atheists posting in the Religion/Spirituality forum. Per the TOS, any member can post on any forum, provided that they are adhering to the rules specified by the TOS. If threads appear in R&S that would be better suited for another forum, (in this case, AA forum) then those threads would be relocated.
Atheists are permitted to post in R&S. If, however, posts are of a trolling nature, or are merely sarcastic/mocking in nature, then those posts would be deleted. The mods can't be everywhere at the same time, so it would be helpful if members used the Report Post function to alert the mods regarding such posts. (It's the fastest means of doing so.) Atheists who post in R&S by means of genuinely contributing to a debate is permissible, but again, must be in adherence to the TOS.
The "no proselytizing" Sticky in the AA forum was put there by the Administrator of City-Data, not the moderators. It was done so in order that atheists would have their own forum where there would not exist posts or threads with the overt intention of converting others. It's purpose essentially serves to underscore the integrity of that particular subforum, such that only atheist-related debates can take place. Posts that are proselytizing are deleted.
Am not sure whether the above is accurately addressing the contents behind the OP. If it's not the case, please let June know in future posts such that any issues/problems can be rectified where and when possible.
Because atheism, truly, is a sort of religion also. It's a firm belief, or faith. They just say there is no god. Otherwise, they are no different. Oh, and just wait for them to have a really bad accident, or get close to dying, or be in an airplane that has some issues and is prone to falling down. I bet 99% of them will be praying like hell and fast and loud.
lol, isn't the God an important part? What is it I have faith in? Nothing?
Ha ha, IMO, your a bit silly. We aren't a religion.
Are you only practicing your religion so you have something to say when you're close to dying? That's a bit sad to me. Sorry for that.
Ahhhhhhh, yes. Don't you just love it when they break out that ridiculous analogy of "Atheism is a Religion as much as Not Collecting Stamps is a Hobby"?
I posted this before to address the matter...it is applicable here now as well:
As respects "Not Collecting Stamps" being a hobby: Not necessarily...if they merely didn't collect stamps.
BUT!...if they went on stamp-collecting forums and put up thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of posts criticizing them for being into stamps and saying things like, "You idiot! You paid how much for that?! It's just a page of perforated paper with ink on the front and dry adhesive on the back! How ignorant can you be?! Hope you get thousands of dollars of enjoyment looking at it!"(add smacking-head Smiley)...THEN you most certainly would have the hobby (could even be called the "religion") of not-collecting stamps.
When they quit pretending not to understand that...and have the guts to cop to what they are doing when they try to push their "Atheist Concept and Worldview" harder than Geico pushes its insurance...then Theists might be able to have a discussion with Atheists.
Though I would never want them to leave this Forum. It would create a terrible "Amusement Deficit".
I think it's more in line with going on the KKK forum defending yourself if you are Jewish. You are clearly not a KKK member but you do have an interest on there. The interest is to defend your right to live without it, make sure laws aren't made that effect your Jewishness, lol.
Just as going on the Jewish forum, if you are a KKK member and go on there you are probably seen as aggressive, so is going on the A&A forum for a Christian who is asserting their religious right to life and there after, announcing we have no right to it on our sub forum.
Or the anti-gay forum if you are gay. The anti-immigration forum if you are an immigrant. etc. You get the picture.
Defending the choice to be gay, atheist, or any other religion for that matter when you are the minority is important, and on the main forum which is free from constraint it is ok with me. I see the desire.
Sub forums are segregated and if I go onto the Christian sub forum, I'd expect to be an assumed aggressor. Vise versa. You can clarify once you are there though, and I'm sure everyone will be understanding. I know we are generally understand to questions from the religious.
Also, I post questions I'm curious about in the main forum so I can get answers from the horses mouth so to speak. I think that's within the rules. Atheists have questions for those who are religious, as well as those who aren't. We ask questions all over this forum, in every area. The main forum has all kinds of beliefs from Jews to Wiccans. It's an awesome get together. IMO.
Because atheism, truly, is a sort of religion also. It's a firm belief, or faith. They just say there is no god. Otherwise, they are no different. Oh, and just wait for them to have a really bad accident, or get close to dying, or be in an airplane that has some issues and is prone to falling down. I bet 99% of them will be praying like hell and fast and loud.
You are very wrong unless I am the one percent of that 99% but I don't think so.
Eighteen years ago I had a red streak going up my leg and went into septic shock.
Was very close to death said the doctor.
I never once thought about any gods, the only thing I was worried about was my wife.
And three weeks ago I was diagnosed with stage four Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL). Now maybe its because of my meditation practice and self hypnosis practice but I haven't even been sad or depressed about the news. And I'm positive when I'm again on my death bed I will not be thinking about any god. It does not bother me in the least that I will die and cease to exist.
We will all get there.
I have a black T shirt that says " Life is hard, then you die." lol, I should start wearing that.
I don't collect stamps, but I don't go onto stamp-collecting sites to taunt people that do.
Philately is the study of stamps and postal history. I don’t study stamps, so I guess I am an aphilatelist. If philatelists were devoted to the scribblings of an ancient text that, according to their interpretation, advocated the oppression of gay people, and if they insisted that stamps were created by a divine being, and they wanted public schools to teach the “Divine Origin of Stamps” theory in science class, then you can be certain that I and my aphilatelist friends would speak out about the absurdity of philatelist preachings. Luckily, philatelists don't try to push absurd views us, so us aphilatelists have no need to taunt them.
Philately is the study of stamps and postal history. I don’t study stamps, so I guess I am an aphilatelist. If philatelists were devoted to the scribblings of an ancient text that, according to their interpretation, advocated the oppression of gay people, and if they insisted that stamps were created by a divine being, and they wanted public schools to teach the “Divine Origin of Stamps” theory in science class, then you can be certain that I and my aphilatelist friends would speak out about the absurdity of philatelist preachings. Luckily, philatelists don't try to push absurd views us, so us aphilatelists have no need to taunt them.
So instead you choose to prosletyze to the religious. Gotcha.
I think it's more in line with going on the KKK forum defending yourself if you are Jewish. You are clearly not a KKK member but you do have an interest on there. The interest is to defend your right to live without it, make sure laws aren't made that effect your Jewishness, lol.
Just as going on the Jewish forum, if you are a KKK member and go on there you are probably seen as aggressive, so is going on the A&A forum for a Christian who is asserting their religious right to life and there after, announcing we have no right to it on our sub forum.
Or the anti-gay forum if you are gay. The anti-immigration forum if you are an immigrant. etc. You get the picture.
Defending the choice to be gay, atheist, or any other religion for that matter when you are the minority is important, and on the main forum which is free from constraint it is ok with me. I see the desire.
Sub forums are segregated and if I go onto the Christian sub forum, I'd expect to be an assumed aggressor. Vise versa. You can clarify once you are there though, and I'm sure everyone will be understanding. I know we are generally understand to questions from the religious.
Also, I post questions I'm curious about in the main forum so I can get answers from the horses mouth so to speak. I think that's within the rules. Atheists have questions for those who are religious, as well as those who aren't. We ask questions all over this forum, in every area. The main forum has all kinds of beliefs from Jews to Wiccans. It's an awesome get together. IMO.
Oh, I get the picture. I fully understand all your examples and comparisons.
And, in fact...they accentuate my point.
If a KKK member went on Jewish websites and forums...over, and over, and over again, thousands upon thousands of times, bashing the Jews in the worst of ways...that's demonstrative of much more than "merely not believing in the concept of Judaism"...regardless of what "threat" they perceive it to be.
Matter of fact, it is demonstrative of a mindset and viewpoint that is beyond the pale.
I actually don't have an issue with that.
The issue I have, is with the, "What?!! Who, me?!! I'm Atheist, and that is nothing more than non-belief in Deities!", proclamations.
If you want to make a religion out of your worldview, preach it incessantly, and slam/bash all other views...you can do that...what I and others may think of that aside. But don't try to feign mere disconnection to the opposing concept...by disingenuously presenting a very narrow definition of the label given to your views.
If you are going to come to the table and play cards--Make your call...Bet your hand...and then lay it out on the table for everyone to see. If you win the pot--you win the pot...if you don't--you don't. But don't show up to play every day for years upon years...and then claim not to hold an intense and arduously focused (read: religiously held) interest in it. That just lowers the value of your stock and reveals you to be dishonest.
The issue I have, is with the, "What?!! Who, me?!! I'm Atheist, and that is nothing more than non-belief in Deities!", proclamations.I ... If you want to make a religion out of your worldview, preach it incessantly, and slam/bash all other views...you can do that...what I and others may think of that aside. But don't try to feign mere disconnection to the opposing concept...by disingenuously presenting a very narrow definition of the label given to your views.
I think it would be helpful to make a distinction between:
1) A set of beliefs based on a theory that has no objective/repeatable empirical support.
2) A set of beliefs based on theories that have a great deal of objective/repeatable empirical support.
Personally, I do not believe that reality is limited to facts that can be objectively verified. I count non-repeatable personal experiences, intuitions, dreams, etc., as possible sources of knowledge and wisdom. Nevertheless, I highly value the role of objective empirical data. You can even call this a sort of "faith" if you want, so long as you acknowledge that "faith" in empirical process is different than faith in something that can only be known through intuitions or mystical insight. The first is vulnerable to "reality checks" whereas the second is not. If some personal belief keeps contradicting my other beliefs (e.g., I'm sure there is a 6 ft tall bunny standing over there, but no one else sees it), then I would question my own sanity and take extra precautions to try to verify the reality of what I think I know. There could, however, be some belief that fails all reality checks, but nevertheless I am not prompted to seriously question the belief. If the belief is so powerful that I hold on to it despite the lack of empirical support, then the my faith in this case counts as "religious."
Speaking for myself (although I'm confident that this applies to at least 70% of all atheists), I am willing to follow empirical evidence wherever it may lead. I'm willing to believe in God if there is data support this belief. This is a very different mind-set than anything that could reasonably be called a "religious belief." I don't disbelieve in God as a matter of principle; I disbelieve because I see no evidence good enough to support "the God hypothesis." Like many other atheists (including most of the most famous ones), I look at religious beliefs from the standpoint of scientific theory. If any of these beliefs begin to have tangible empirical support, there is a good chance that I will adopt them. Otherwise...not so much. (I can't rule out the possibility that a powerful mystical insight could change my tune, although I hope that even in this case I will have the good sense to maintain a respect for empirical evidence, and openly acknowledge that my mystical belief has none. I also hope that I would not run around trying to convince everyone else that they are fools for not seeing what I have seen.)
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I know we are generally understand to questions from the religious.
