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It is possible to enjoy this life while knowing that an even greater life awaits. And that's where theists have it all over atheists... the latter have nothing to look forward to after their mortal life. Including never seeing friends and family ever again. That sounds depressing to me.
Like it or not, you have only convinced yourself that you'll fly off to a paradise after you die. You can't know that's what will happen, not by a longshot. Who here has died for more than a few hours only to return and tell everyone about what goes on beyond the veil?
Sure, as an atheist, I kinda-sorta hope there is an afterlife. I just don't see the benefit of a religious afterlife, one where you spend eternity at the feet of a God mumbling praises. That is merely its own kind of hell.
Remember that we are atheists - which means we don't believe in gods. That does not mean we can't hope for something more than this world when we die. Nothing about atheism says we can't hope for, or even believe in, an afterlife.
As atheists, however, we just don't believe in the kind of afterlife religion thinks it has dominion over. We don't think or believe that a god is acting like a cosmic bouncer keeping the non-believers out of heaven. If there is such a place as an afterlife, we all go there as part of our evolutionary process. If it is a paradise, then our own minds and consciousness creates it. I mean, seriously, who gives a damn about streets paved with gold? That is something that would be on the wish list of a primitive desert nomad, not a 21st Century American.
In a Christian afterlife, well, good luck seeing ALL of your loved ones there, Fleet. I bet a few were heavy doubters, perhaps some were even closet atheists. The Christian Heaven works a lot like some annoying phone plans ... the only way you save money is if you convince your family and friends to sign up too, and if they don't, you have to pay exhorbitant prices to call them. Sound familiar?
I'm a 1st generation American. The vast majority of my family are back in India practicing Hinduism in various degrees of conviction. How can the Christian Heaven entice me in any way knowing that unless I rush back to India and convert my entire family to Christianity, my welcome wagon in heaven will be rather, uhm, non-existent. BUT hey, at least I'll get to watch them burning in hell and laugh at them like the Bible says, right? That ought to count for something.
Today, the sun is out. The dogs are behaving and having a great time in the snow. I've been listening to Paul Simon so TODAY I am living and putting off dying until maybe tomorrow. We'll see how things go.
Wow, I'm surprised anyone would even have to ask "why."
Would you be okay with never seeing your parents/family/friends for an eternity? Wouldn't that sadden you even a little?
I have always been OK with it. Not once in my life did I ever think I would see people after I died. People die. The end. Am I sad when people die? Sure. Am I sad thinking about that people will die and I won't see them again? No.
Its like I will be forced to live an eternity not seeing them. I'll be dead as well. I won't feel anything.
It's still an opinion. Your thoughts are no more valid than mine.
If X is not there, and I point out that X is not there, then that is not an opinion. It is a fact.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
It is a choice. A person can choose to have a belief in the afterlife. I do; you don't.
Speak for yourself son. I can not "choose" to believe things. Perhaps your own credulity is so placid that you can flick it on and off like a switch. I however can not.
How labile is this credulity on your part? Can I for example give you an empty box and you can simply choose to believe it is full of money?
Wow, just wow.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
It's not "fantasies." It's belief and faith.
A rose by any other name....
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Why not allow those who have it to do so instead of insulting them?
If you want to misconstrue simply disagreement with "insult" then so be it. I would merely advise you to grow a thicker skin.
I have always been OK with it. Not once in my life did I ever think I would see people after I died. People die. The end. Am I sad when people die? Sure. Am I sad thinking about that people will die and I won't see them again? No.
Its like I will be forced to live an eternity not seeing them. I'll be dead as well. I won't feel anything.
You didn't fully answer my question though.
Wow, you must be a Vulcan (no emotion). I do find what you say somewhat hard to believe. That you would miss absolutely no one. Are you sure about that? Do you have any friends?
You can believe you will be "dead." I believe it's just a change from one type of life to another.
If X is not there, and I point out that X is not there, then that is not an opinion. It is a fact.
Here is another fact... we don't know everything about life and the universe.
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Speak for yourself son. I can not "choose" to believe things. Perhaps your own credulity is so placid that you can flick it on and off like a switch. I however can not.
Of course you can choose to believe. Why not?
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How labile is this credulity on your part? Can I for example give you an empty box and you can simply choose to believe it is full of money?
Wow, just wow.
I think you are taking it too seriously. How about just letting me have my faith and beliefs? I'm not forcing you to have them, too. It's up to you.
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A rose by any other name....
It's a lot more complicated than a rose! Calling it a "fantasy" is your opinion.
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If you want to misconstrue simply disagreement with "insult" then so be it. I would merely advise you to grow a thicker skin.
I would advise you to accept other people's faith and beliefs and don't refer to them as "fantasy" or "blindness."
Like it or not, you have only convinced yourself that you'll fly off to a paradise after you die. You can't know that's what will happen, not by a longshot. Who here has died for more than a few hours only to return and tell everyone about what goes on beyond the veil?
Sure, as an atheist, I kinda-sorta hope there is an afterlife. I just don't see the benefit of a religious afterlife, one where you spend eternity at the feet of a God mumbling praises. That is merely its own kind of hell.
Remember that we are atheists - which means we don't believe in gods. That does not mean we can't hope for something more than this world when we die. Nothing about atheism says we can't hope for, or even believe in, an afterlife.
As atheists, however, we just don't believe in the kind of afterlife religion thinks it has dominion over. We don't think or believe that a god is acting like a cosmic bouncer keeping the non-believers out of heaven. If there is such a place as an afterlife, we all go there as part of our evolutionary process. If it is a paradise, then our own minds and consciousness creates it. I mean, seriously, who gives a damn about streets paved with gold? That is something that would be on the wish list of a primitive desert nomad, not a 21st Century American.
In a Christian afterlife, well, good luck seeing ALL of your loved ones there, Fleet. I bet a few were heavy doubters, perhaps some were even closet atheists. The Christian Heaven works a lot like some annoying phone plans ... the only way you save money is if you convince your family and friends to sign up too, and if they don't, you have to pay exhorbitant prices to call them. Sound familiar?
I'm a 1st generation American. The vast majority of my family are back in India practicing Hinduism in various degrees of conviction. How can the Christian Heaven entice me in any way knowing that unless I rush back to India and convert my entire family to Christianity, my welcome wagon in heaven will be rather, uhm, non-existent. BUT hey, at least I'll get to watch them burning in hell and laugh at them like the Bible says, right? That ought to count for something.
I don't have to convince anybody about an afterlife. That is the beauty of it... everyone will find out when their time comes. I don't have to around "proving" it.
I will say I sure am glad I am not an atheist! Because it makes it that much harder to enter (and enjoy) the afterlife (atheists cannot enter). Basically, you do have to believe in God to reside in heaven because God is heaven. You can't have one without the other.
One big reason of my belief of the afterlife is from the many people who have had NDEs. I know some people will say that are "hallucinating" or it was due to drugs, but that doesn't explain many things. Like the fact that someone from India or Russia will have a very similar NDE compared to someone from here in the U.S or Canada or Australia.
The Bible I have next to me teaches love, not "laughing at those burning in hell." At the churches I have been to, the people there don't laugh at that, either.
But it's your choice. You can believe in the afterlife or believe in nothing.
Here is another fact... we don't know everything about life and the universe.
Nor have I ever claimed we do. But one is certainly getting desperate when one has to support an assertion by pointing out there are things we do not know. "We do not know everything... therefore X is credible" is at best an argument from desperation.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Of course you can choose to believe. Why not?
As I said. Speak for yourself. I can not choose belief. Belief is a reaction to the substantiation. If you give me a box that is empty I can not choose to believe it full. It is patently empty.
If you have a credulity so labile that you can merely flick it about at will then great: but I simply do not share that trait. If there is no reason at all to believe X... then I simply fail to believe X.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
I think you are taking it too seriously. How about just letting me have my faith and beliefs?
At what point have I EVER tried to stop you? This is a debate and discussion forum. I am therefore debating and discussing. If you do not like that then it is you in the wrong here, not me. No one is forcing you to read what I write, let alone reply.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
It's a lot more complicated than a rose! Calling it a "fantasy" is your opinion.
I call it unsubstantiated. Given no substantiation is being offered, much less so from you.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
I would advise you to accept other people's faith and beliefs and don't refer to them as "fantasy" or "blindness."
And I would advise you to worry about what words you put in your posts, and I will worry about what ones I put in mine.
One big reason of my belief of the afterlife is from the many people who have had NDEs.
That is not a good reason. The very meaning of NDE tells you why it is not a good reason. They did not die. It stands for NEAR death experience. As such any experience they had is not an experience of an after life. It is an experience of THIS life.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Like the fact that someone from India or Russia will have a very similar NDE compared to someone from here in the U.S or Canada or Australia.
Actually it DOES explain that. We are all human. Therefore our brains under duress will act very similarly. So you have it exactly backwards and wrong. It would be harder to explain if NDEs were markedly different from each other locally or internationally. That our brains under similar stress act in similar ways is no mystery and certainly not evidence of an after life.
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