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I was raised Roman Catholic, as many of you know the RCC regards abortion to be murder in all circumstances, and also prohibits the usage of birth control and condoms within otherwise acceptable sexual relationships (ie heterosexual marriage).
I'm now a Muslim and the traditional Islamic belief as affirmed by most scholars (even traditional ones, although the few scholars that do ban abortion tend to be western scholars who seem to have been influenced by the Christian view on abortion) is that the baby becomes a real life (receives a soul) around the point of 100 days of gestation and abortio is something that is allowed before that point if the baby was conceived by rape or will be left uncared for in life due to illegitimacy or familial poverty, and it is allowed after that point if the mother's life is endangered because the extant life is more important than the potential life.
On birth control or condoms within a marriage (the only halaal scenario for sexual relations) it is allowed if caring for another child is an undue hardship financially, or if the wife's body cannot handle a pregnancy, and both the husband and the wife must agree to using birth control or condoms. If you can provide for more children and the wife is physically able to have a healthy pregnancy then "we don't want any more kids" isn't considered a valid reason. However, if there's a valid reason to use birth control or wear a condom within marital sex and your spouse won't consent to it, the partner has a right to withhold sex. That last part may sound a little strange, but it ties into one of the basic obligations of Islamic marriage is to sexually satisfy your partner, and if a man won't sexually satisfy his wife or vice versa without valid reason it's grounds for a divorce (and the dowry goes with the wronged party) or the husband may take another wife.
I now agree with the Islamic stance on these matters, but I had a big problem with it when I first converted and I actually Skyped with a scholar in Egypt and asked him to convince me from a moral perspective that it isn't murder, since I had always believed that abortion was always wrong and that life begins as soon as as fertilization occurs.
Where does your religion stand on this issue, and do you agree or disagree?
(By religion, I mean your particular sect if applicable. There is a lot of difference between Southern Baptists, Church of Sweden Lutherans, Greek Orthodox and Unitarians but they're all Christian.)
My post isn't intended to start arguments and cause hate between people!
God said from Deuteronomy 30:19......... ``I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death , blessing and cursing, There for choose life that both you and your seed may live ``.............See these Words of God still apply with the senseless abortion of the unborn who do not have a birth certificate , as most Christians lean to life and blessing
Whatever the wrongs and rights, merits and demerits or abortion, contraception or other ways of interfering with the natural course of events, the conclusions and decisions should be based on reason, evidence, law and human compassion.
Whatever the wrongs and rights, merits and demerits or abortion, contraception or other ways of interfering with the natural course of events, the conclusions and decisions should be based on reason, evidence, law and human compassion.
What it should not be based on is religion.
There is no way to assess the morality of something without consulting your religious beliefs, sorry but telling me to keep my religion out of my politics is telling me not to vote.
There is no way to assess the morality of something without consulting your religious beliefs, sorry but telling me to keep my religion out of my politics is telling me not to vote.
That's perfectly fine and as it should be if that's what works for you. It should also be respected that one size does not fit all and there are many views regarding abortion that are both religious and non religious. One is not right and the other is not wrong. It's an individual choice.
What's even more tragic is that female babies are routinely killed in other cultures. Our Indian friends told us about many female babies that were killed in their village. There are worse things then abortion. These murders are just part of life to them, and life is cheap.
There is no way to assess the morality of something without consulting your religious beliefs, sorry but telling me to keep my religion out of my politics is telling me not to vote.
Only if your votes are predicated on forcing everyone else to follow the morality of your religion as determined by you. Sadly, there are indeed legions of people who think that their favorite ancient book (at least, the parts they like and don't prefer to ignore or creatively 'reinterpret') should be followed by everyone - under threat of criminal punishment, if need be.
That's perfectly fine and as it should be if that's what works for you. It should also be respected that one size does not fit all and there are many views regarding abortion that are both religious and non religious. One is not right and the other is not wrong. It's an individual choice.
What's even more tragic is that female babies are routinely killed in other cultures. Our Indian friends told us about many female babies that were killed in their village. There are worse things then abortion. These murders are just part of life to them, and life is cheap.
This thread is literally about religious beliefs, what are you doing here?
Also, relative morality doesn't exist. There is such thing as right, and such thing as wrong.
Only if your votes are predicated on forcing everyone else to follow the morality of your religion as determined by you. Sadly, there are indeed legions of people who think that their favorite ancient book (at least, the parts they like and don't prefer to ignore or creatively 'reinterpret') should be followed by everyone - under threat of criminal punishment, if need be.
I post a question in the "religion and spirituality" forum and get jumped by the Sam Harris crew, really now?
I vote on the basis of right and wrong, correct and incorrect, my religion informs that.
Anyhow, this is a topic about your religion's stance on an issue, and you're opinion on it. If you want to whine about people having a religion, or about people of faith daring to participate in politics, you're welcome to start your own thread. Stay on topic, it seems you have nothing to add to the discussion.
I said I wasn't going to post more than once, but Ibm, chum, you are doing so well that I have to.
If you think that religion forums are open only to those believing some religion or other and not those whose religious convictions are along the lines of "All bunk, pretty much.." you are behind the times.
We Ungodly Satanspawn take the view that the application of religious questions to social problems is as useful as applying leeches to a smallpox sufferer. And those who seem to think we should should not be here, O Enligthened One who has swapped a lousy religion for an even worse one, are not going to get rid of us or our much -needed input by complaining about us.
We, the Sam Harris crew, the Matt Dililahunty denomination and my own hooded black clad legion of scarlet -sword -wielding chanters of "Hail to Darwin, Dawkins is his prophet", react to such whines and croaks pf protest by gathering in ever closer, eager to get a piece each.
There is no way to assess the morality of something without consulting your religious beliefs, sorry but telling me to keep my religion out of my politics is telling me not to vote.
He is saying, and I agree with him, that we don't vote based on your god or your religion. "god" told me" isn't a reason for anything but passing off personal responsibility to somebody or something else.
He means, if you can reword your reasons without the word "god" we will listen. Like he said, I may be ok with killing it or not killing it, based on logic.
Just side note: "its my body" for "choice" isn't good to me either. It's not their body, it's the babies. But still, logic may dictate that the life is ended or not.
Its a sucky choice.
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that I have to.
