What would God have to do for you to believe he is real? (salvation, souls)
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Suppose you were God. You're like "hey everybody, worship me!"
You're bragging, which makes you seem not that hot.
According to many Christians and the book they talk about, God does expect to be worshipped regularly. Which makes you seem less "hot", 1. telling people directly to worship him or 2. just expect it without saying anything and then later sending most people to be punished for their lack of faith and worship?
*My question is under the assumption that you believe that non-believers go to hell. I realize that there are Christians who do not believe in a literal hell.
But that's exactly why any god in the Eternal Torment camp, would necessarily have to be a false god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acts 17
And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psalm 40
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire-- but my ears you have opened -- burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.
What defines a real God is being timeless, indifferent, and completely not dependent on humans will to exist. Something that collapses when you don't believe in it? We call that a ghost.
But that's exactly why any god in the Eternal Torment camp, would necessarily have to be a false god.
What defines a real God is being timeless, indifferent, and completely not dependent on humans will to exist. Something that collapses when you don't believe in it? We call that a ghost.
Well, we call that 'Nature'. For us to correctly talk of 'God' we need some evidence of more than natural going on. Personal convictions or even mystical experiences are not good enough. picking on coincidental events as God's hand' is statistically invalid. I have had hundreds of such coincidences but I have never been a believer. It is just coincidence.
ID, archaeology and cosmology has failed to show any sound evidence of a god (apart from human belief) and unexplained questions are no more than that. The argument from Morality is dead in the water.
What apart from faith is the rationale for God -belief? And faith -as I have said - is not good enough, as a sound reason to believe.
I don't contest anyone's right to believe but I do stand on my right to contest its soundness, especially on a thread about reasons to believe.
After reading through the replies by believers, I wonder what would happen if I started a thread asking Christians what it would take for them not to believe and then started calling them stubborn, immoral and ignorant when they answered. Even if it wasn't shut down by the mods, I'm not sure that level of defensiveness and blaming the victim would convince anyone.
Oh i know that, but i was concerned with absolute proof mostly for atheists and theists as well i guess
But people like myself do not want "absolute proof". I have never asked for that.
Any evidence, argument, data and reasoning that even BEGINS to substantiate the claim there is a god would be a nice start. Even that is not forthcoming however.
What it actually is however is not for me to decide. It is for the people actually making the claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimalRescue
I think you just want to be your own god or you are bitter about life events slightly. Its illogical to not believe in the end
This is the kind of thing that just makes theists look bad. So please keep saying it.
That you would just lash out with baseless ad hominem assumptions about someone you know nothing about rather than discuss the topic of the thread YOU started just belies how weak your own position is.
I for one fail to think there is a god because there is no reason to think there is a god. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how pleased I am with my own life.
Plus, if we are going to reduce ourselves to that childish level, we could BOTH play that game. Perhaps, for example, you only think there is a god because you are so unhappy with your miserable life that your only hope lies in there being a better one to come.
See how fatuous and useless it is to reduce the conversation to those terms?
But people like myself do not want "absolute proof". I have never asked for that.
Any evidence, argument, data and reasoning that even BEGINS to substantiate the claim there is a god would be a nice start. Even that is not forthcoming however.
What it actually is however is not for me to decide. It is for the people actually making the claim.
This is the kind of thing that just makes theists look bad. So please keep saying it.
That you would just lash out with baseless ad hominem assumptions about someone you know nothing about rather than discuss the topic of the thread YOU started just belies how weak your own position is.
I for one fail to think there is a god because there is no reason to think there is a god. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how pleased I am with my own life.
Plus, if we are going to reduce ourselves to that childish level, we could BOTH play that game. Perhaps, for example, you only think there is a god because you are so unhappy with your miserable life that your only hope lies in there being a better one to come.
See how fatuous and useless it is to reduce the conversation to those terms?
Just so you can be rude to them. I wonder what your god thinks about that?
More to the point, I wonder what the Mods think about it?
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