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Hi, I am new to this forum, but after reading some really neat threads here, I'm hoping for some feedback you.
I was raised with a belief that we can "know" certain things to be true through personal, direct revelation from God. I am now trying to figure out what to think of that idea. Have any of you had this sort of experience? Do you feel that God has revealed something directly to you that you simply know to be true, regardless of any outside evidence? What is it that you know to be true because of it? Also, what was the experience like?
In the evangelical world, everyone at your church claims to have such "knowing" and no one wants to be the person who says they have no such experience or that whatever their experience is, can be explained in natural / human terms. I grew up with it, from the age of five, and so to me it just was the "obvious truths" of the Bible ... the world created in a few days, talking snakes, virgin birth, resurrection, etc. As far as personal guidance was concerned, I was just putting religious labels on normal human decision making, hunches, and gut feelings.
If at age 20 you had asked me if I had this "knowing" by direct revelation, I'd have said, yes, of course. Not in the overwrought pentecostal fashion, in my case, but I would have definitely made that claim. Now having a few more decades under my belt and having talked to a variety of people with a variety of beliefs I know it for what it is ... ordinary human information gathering, intuition and calculation.
In the evangelical world, everyone at your church claims to have such "knowing" and no one wants to be the person who says they have no such experience or that whatever their experience is, can be explained in natural / human terms. .
Ya know there are a lot of churches. Most teach the same basic doctrine. A few not so much.
To better understand the OP and your retort, can you tell me what flavor the OP's church is? Then I can accurately comment thanks.
I have often wondered how some people can claim to "know" one thing while other people can claim to "know" the exact opposite. For this reason, I never use the word "know" myself when speaking of spiritual knowledge. I prefer to say that I "am convinced" of certain things. To me, this implies that I have given the matter some serious thought and study and that I feel confident in the conclusions I've come to, while still acknowledging that I'm only human and am just going to have to wait until a later date (sometime beyond this life) when I suspect we all will be able to claim that we "know" and will all be on the same page.
I have often wondered how some people can claim to "know" one thing while other people can claim to "know" the exact opposite. For this reason, I never use the word "know" myself when speaking of spiritual knowledge. I prefer to say that I "am convinced" of certain things. To me, this implies that I have given the matter some serious thought and study and that I feel confident in the conclusions I've come to, while still acknowledging that I'm only human and am just going to have to wait until a later date (sometime beyond this life) when I suspect we all will be able to claim that we "know" and will all be on the same page.
As long as you realize that what you are referring to is intellectual acceptance, Katz . . . we can agree. However . . . as I have tried to explain unsuccessfully here many times (mainly because I really can't) . . . there is a form of "knowing" that exists in meditative and altered states that is "direct" and neither dependent on nor linked to ANY external evidence or knowledge. That is what I would refer to as Spiritual "Knowing." The problem is it can be claimed and asserted by anyone and cannot be externally validated . . . which is probably why there are contradictions. BUT to the person actually experiencing Spiritual "Knowing" . . . (not merely claiming it) . . . it is undeniable and life-changing.
Hi, I am new to this forum, but after reading some really neat threads here, I'm hoping for some feedback you.
I was raised with a belief that we can "know" certain things to be true through personal, direct revelation from God. I am now trying to figure out what to think of that idea. Have any of you had this sort of experience? Do you feel that God has revealed something directly to you that you simply know to be true, regardless of any outside evidence? What is it that you know to be true because of it? Also, what was the experience like?
Thank you!
Many of these types of "knowings" occurred in the 60's and 70's, induced by hallucinogenic drugs. Many of these people were convinced that they spoke to and saw God, who provided some type of insight into the natural world.
Hi, I am new to this forum, but after reading some really neat threads here, I'm hoping for some feedback you.
I was raised with a belief that we can "know" certain things to be true through personal, direct revelation from God. I am now trying to figure out what to think of that idea. Have any of you had this sort of experience? Do you feel that God has revealed something directly to you that you simply know to be true, regardless of any outside evidence? What is it that you know to be true because of it? Also, what was the experience like?
Thank you!
The problem, of course, is when the thing you "know" contradicts what someone else "knows" to be true.
Hi, I am new to this forum, but after reading some really neat threads here, I'm hoping for some feedback you.
I was raised with a belief that we can "know" certain things to be true through personal, direct revelation from God. I am now trying to figure out what to think of that idea. Have any of you had this sort of experience? Do you feel that God has revealed something directly to you that you simply know to be true, regardless of any outside evidence? What is it that you know to be true because of it? Also, what was the experience like?
Thank you!
Yes. Usually it's just powerful feelings, sometimes you have actual images come into your mind. I know that God is there and I know it so thoroughly and complete that I cannot begin to describe it. I wouldn't know it any better if God actually appeared to me right this second and introduced himself.
What is the experience like? Overwhelming. Overpowering. It is as though you reached out expecting a cup of water and got an ocean instead. Everyone tends to describe it differently and the sensation may not be the exactly the same for everyone. But to me it is usually like a pleasant but intense warmth -- like a fire, but it's painless and feels good. Sometimes it's a sudden thing, almost like electricity. Sometimes it is almost unnoticeable. In all cases, words fail to accurately do it justice.
The problem, of course, is when the thing you "know" contradicts what someone else "knows" to be true.
Absolutely correct. What one can then do is agree to differ or try to argue it out. Agreeing to differ is less stressfful but it means that one has avoided the question of whether one has incorrect knowledge.
To argue it out can become acrimonious. The problem also is to decide on what basis the argument takes place. Then personal revelationary knowledge just puts us back to square one.
You know what's interesting, is why everybody wants to argue and debate this matter. Arguing and debating over religion or spiritual matters really accomplishes nothing, it's very rare that anyone is going to change their opinion or their belief on such matters. Once we realize that although biologically we're all the same, intellectually and spiritually we're all different and that means that whatever is believed by one person does not necessarily mean that it is believed by another, but at the same time it does not mean that either one is wrong. Stop and think about that, if one person has a spiritual encounter with their god or creator and another person doesn't, it does mean that one is wrong and one is right, it just means that one had the experience and the other didn't, there is no right or wrong experience. We're all different and we all experience things differently, it's just that simple. If we come to an understanding that such things as this do happen then maybe we can learn to have respect for one another's beliefs and cultures and maybe peace will come to mankind, who knows, it just might be possible, someday.
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) . . . there is a form of "knowing" that exists in meditative and altered states that is "direct" and neither dependent on nor linked to ANY external evidence or knowledge. That is what I would refer to as Spiritual "Knowing." The problem is it can be claimed and asserted by anyone and cannot be externally validated . . . which is probably why there are contradictions. BUT to the person actually experiencing Spiritual "Knowing" . . . (not merely claiming it) . . . it is undeniable and life-changing.
