Why to keep the Sabbath

[fschmidt]

Originally Posted by NoCapo

Or they just have to consider themselves "above" the masses whose financial stability they are playing with and suddenly they are no longer immoral by your measure. Maybe they are fighting against everyone who is not a Wall Street power player because they are not part of the tribe. Evidently, all it takes in your view to define morality is internal motivation, and not the act itself? And beyond that, why is acting dishonestly and dishonorably to those you consider opponents moral at all?

Having worked on Wall Street, I can assure you that they wouldn't hesitate to stab each other in back. They have no morals for anyone. I don't understand your comment about internal motivation. I mostly agree with mordant's definition of morality above, meaning that it is tribal/societal. There is no reason to apply morality to enemy cultures. The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) provides plenty examples supporting this view.

[fschmidt]

Originally Posted by mordant

It seems like I've heard rhetoric like this from Islamists: I hate infidel society, in fact I am at war with it. But I'd never harm anyone who I considered to be part of MY society (he said as he strapped his suicide bombs on).

Isn't this consistent with your own definition of morality? Unlike modern culture, I expect Islam to be around in 200 years. I am not particularly fond of Islam, but I respect it and I do not consider myself at war with Islam. Islam has never harmed me while modern culture harms me all the time.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by fschmidt

Isn't this consistent with your own definition of morality? Unlike modern culture, I expect Islam to be around in 200 years. I am not particularly fond of Islam, but I respect it and I do not consider myself at war with Islam. Islam has never harmed me while modern culture harms me all the time.

No, I would not harm anyone of any tribe if it were at all avoidable. And I would not stab a banker in the back simply because he'd be inclined to stab me. Of course, it would also be imprudent of me to be a banker if I were unwilling to swim with the sharks, so to speak, as I'd be far too predictable and would be cut off at the knees at every turn. But I would be unwilling to be a banker, in any event.

I admit this presents a practical problem. Banking, politics, and a lot of other things are simply closed off to me because I refuse to play according to the non-rules.

I expect "modern culture" to be around in 200 years, but it will be modern according to the standards of 2213. Whether that means that 2013's version of "modern culture" was failed or simply superseded by progressively improved versions is, I'm guessing, where you and I would disagree.