your rights...

[minidiaz]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

There is no such thing as "objective" evidence. All evidence is subject to interpretation and must be given appropriate weight by those who do that interpretation. That's why we end up with "dueling experts" in courts.

so the evidence that our bodies need oxygen is subject to interpretation?
so the evidence that my house was torn apart from a tornado is subject to interpretation?
so the evidence of gravity and the laws of motion are subject to interpretation?
so the evidence of causality is subject to interpretation?

Every Christian has gotten evidence sufficient for him or her.

and? what does that have to do with the criteria i have set up for myself in order to be convinced an assertion is real? are you suggesting that i abandon my criteria and adopt the christians criteria because they believe it? now that would be silly

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by minidiaz

so the evidence that our bodies need oxygen is subject to interpretation?
so the evidence that my house was torn apart from a tornado is subject to interpretation?
so the evidence of gravity and the laws of motion are subject to interpretation?
so the evidence of causality is subject to interpretation?

You were not discussing evidence of a physical phenomenon. You said:

"if i were to assert something without objective evidence that is claiming an all encompassing authority over you, you have the right to request for that authority over you to be proven with objective evidence..."

"Authority" is not a physical phenomenon, it's a social and philosophical concept.

and? what does that have to do with the criteria i have set up for myself in order to be convinced an assertion is real? are you suggesting that i abandon my criteria and adopt the christians criteria because they believe it? now that would be silly

Oh, you were talking about evidence that you would accept according to criteria that--ahem--"i have set up for myself?"

There is nothing objective about "criteria i have set up for myself."

Now that is silly.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

LMAO!!! Yes, you are asking for the impossible, and that is tooooo much!
This mind view is just remnants of a time not understood. Where traditional thinking was all people had. Why is it raining? God is angry, or God is happy with us depending on rain being unwelcome or needed.
We have become smarter, we have figured out a lot. Some people still hold onto the remnants of our ancestors with religious reason. There is no proof, just security in an old superstition.
Unfortunately, time will be the only cure. You might not live to see it. Until then I try to sympathize as best I can with those who truly believe a God has ultimate authority over the entire world.

What you say is largely true . . . except this:"God has authority over the entire world." We have been given Dominion over the earth . . . and our selfish and irresponsible treatment of it has "reaped many whirlwinds" . . . so to speak.

And I let them know that under human law enforcing this authority isn't legal in America.

This is true and cannot be repeated or reinforced enough. The days of dictating to one another using God as the excuse is over in America. We need solid societal reasons and rationales for our secular laws.

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

What you say is largely true . . . except this:"God has authority over the entire world." We have been given Dominion over the earth . . . and our selfish and irresponsible treatment of it has "reaped many whirlwinds" . . . so to speak.

No man has been given dominion. We only perceive we have that as we evolved to be top of the food chain except when we are in the wild w/o our guns and iron chariots, then all bets are off.

This is true and cannot be repeated or reinforced enough. The days of dictating to one another using God as the excuse is over in America. We need solid societal reasons and rationales for our secular laws.

With that I can agree. With that said, religion could have shaped secular laws but seeing that all cultures tend to have the idea that killing is bad not exposed to any Abrahamic religion, it is suffice to say, at the time of ignorance, religion did serve a purpose of socio/political control.

The laws as they stand should reflect fairness to all people but what we do see is influences of archaic thinking being used to deny people rights in the US in some states.

Politicians are always going to be scum bags as absolute power corrupts absolutely.

We are all slaves to the "man" and the system no matter how much we plead liberty and justice and equality.

With all the whining we hear, we are still better off than folk 100 years ago that were for the most part ignorant what transpired in the halls of government. Today a politician's gaffs are recorded for ever and cannot be denied. We are even able to peek into these halls in other countries and pass judgement.

The recent Syria debacle, the US citizenry made it very clear they would not support another war regardless of party affiliation. 100 years ago, no one would have even been aware there was a conflict there.

Only Science has made this possible.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Originally Posted by minidiaz

i............ all encompassing authority over you, you have the right to ..........

Beyond me why you think you have some sort of "right" to have everything explained to you. If there is some sort of all encompassing authority over all humanity, it doesn't owe you any explanation, and very likely doesn't much about you as an individual out of billions. I suspect that you are not as important as you think you are.

You don't even have a Constitutional right to have everything explained to you and your Constitutional rights end at the borders of the USA. They don't apply in other countries and they certainly don't apply out in the universe.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

This mind view is just remnants of a time not understood. Where traditional thinking was all people had. Why is it raining? God is angry, or God is happy with us depending on rain being unwelcome or needed.
We have become smarter, we have figured out a lot. Some people still hold onto the remnants of our ancestors with religious reason. There is no proof, just security in an old superstition.

Actually this type of childish thinking is alive and well.

Locally an opinion column in the paper attempted to attribute our rainy summer (above average rainfall) to god as retribution for some sin. This is not some fringe pentacostal or fundy religion or cult, but from a preacher and church official Rev. Skip Gillikin is the pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Weaverville and the Stated Clerk of the Western Carolina Presbytery of the Presbyterian Church in America.

Their moral decision led to all of them dying in the flood except for Noah’s family. One must flee from the urge to worship created things rather than the Creator.There is no need to contact the EPA. God is firmly in charge of the climate. The pollution that needs to be dealt with is our sin. God has handled that by offering the gift of salvation to all who trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. For what is truly a “safer, more sustainable future” I encourage all to deal with this most important moral issue.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...=2013311120008

Follow-up letters to the editor, even from religions I would expect to buy into this non-sense have lambasted the ignorance and denial of fact he expressed.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Actually this type of childish thinking is alive and well.

Locally an opinion column in the paper attempted to attribute our rainy summer (above average rainfall) to god as retribution for some sin. This is not some fringe pentacostal or fundy religion or cult, but from a preacher and church official Rev. Skip Gillikin is the pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Weaverville and the Stated Clerk of the Western Carolina Presbytery of the Presbyterian Church in America.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...=2013311120008

Follow-up letters to the editor, even from religions I would expect to buy into this non-sense have lambasted the ignorance and denial of fact he expressed.

Especially since Jesus Himself emphatically denied more than once that such natural occurrences had anything to do with sin.

The few times they were referenced in the Old Testament were circumstances clearly specialized by the fact that God or a prophet of God specifically warned of them in advance. There was never an indication that all natural events were the result of sin or righteousness--only those for which there had been specific advanced warning.