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That is not it as He could have ordered a 1,000 angels to come to His aid.
If he did, they didn't show up. The above is not evidence of anything. I could claim that I can post on this forum directly from my brain, but am refraining from that and have decided to use my computer instead. That would be a claim without any proof, or without any reason to believe it true, just as your above claim about the rescue angel army is.
It is not necessary for thought to continue to be generated for its existence to be real . . . fire stops when the combustibles are exhausted . . . but what was produced can be seen or experienced far away from the combustibles. If the fire was a composite being that could consciously interact with us it could not be considered just the combustibles that produced it. That is the distinction you fail to grasp about our consciousness "fire" because it is not measurable as baryons. It is non-baryonic and part of the 95+% of our reality that is not measurable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander
If you can't measure something then it exists only in theory if it exists at all. Have you not been marketing your conclusions as absolutes rather than theory?
I have not been marketing my views . . . I have been explaining and defending them. I have been careful to separate my BELIEFS from my HYPOTHESES and from the extant science from which they are EXTRAPOLATED. The distinctions have not been readily acknowledged . . . so I accept some blame for that failure.
This is how it looks to me anyways...........According to Jesus, the Pharisees murdered many of God's Prophets who were sent to guide the Jews, so there was a very clear human rights issue going on well before Jesus came along. So, to save the Jews from terrorism, Jesus scorned the Pharisees, but then performed miracles on behalf of the terrorist prophet the Pharisees were dutifully following. So now, after Jesus, we have Islam and other cults led by a false prophet, and the Jews, who are still under Moses's terrorist rule, and Christians who are now taking Moe and his immoral false God of terrorism to influence. Jesus's ministry was a resounding failure. The only solution to saving the Jews, is to scorn the original terrorist, Moses, which Jesus not only DID NOT DO, but actually empowered and enabled. The spirit of the Rider is the savior of not only the Jews, but of all those trapped in Islam, and the whole of mankind, no thanks to Jesus, who only empowered, and enabled Moses's reign of tyranny.
Well RP...I'm not quite sure I understand what kind of twisted and convoluted standard you are using to make your declaration.
BUT...by any standard that means anything in the "Arena of World Merit and Influence"
(the only thing that REALLY matters) Jesus is the ULTIMATE success.
Failure?! You're kidding, right?!!
Jesus Christs' ministry of Love, Peace, Mercy, and Forgiveness is the greatest, most influential, most enduring...and by that--THE MOST SUCCESSFUL EVER!
Check this out too:Beacons of the Past: Napoleon Bonaparte's Empire vs. Christ's:
We even mark time by Jesus---Why is it "2013"?
Anybody that would claim Jesus a failed minister is either ignorant, deluded, or coming from a position of bias. The "Facts On The Ground"...completely contradict any contention of the sort.
You are assuming, Gldenrule, that Jesus' mission was aimed at creating the Roman based - church and its protestant offshoots.
If his intention was something else, then what he was actually intending to do failed, and what the Pauline Christians doctrinally decided was his mission (to take a revised Judaic faith to the gentiles, essentially), turned by Constantine into the Roman state religion is what we got. And the most successful religious worldview it has been; conceded, though Islam and Hindo -Buddhism have been almost as successful (the point being that a religion doesn't have to be true to be successful).
Of course, secular worldviews such as capitalist trading and parliamentary democracy have done as well and even better. And they will still be around when Christianity is relegated to the mythology shelf.
You are assuming, Gldenrule, that Jesus' mission was aimed at creating the Roman based - church and its protestant offshoots.
If his intention was something else, then what he was actually intending to do failed, and what the Pauline Christians doctrinally decided was his mission (to take a revised Judaic faith to the gentiles, essentially), turned by Constantine into the Roman state religion is what we got. And the most successful religious worldview it has been; conceded, though Islam and Hindo -Buddhism have been almost as successful (the point being that a religion doesn't have to be true to be successful).
Of course, secular worldviews such as capitalist trading and parliamentary democracy have done as well and even better. And they will still be around when Christianity is relegated to the mythology shelf.
I noted I was using a more general standard of "Failure VS Success" in the analysis of Jesus' ministry.
One could always say "He Failed!", if they want to use a standard of "success" as actually getting all mankind to "Love Each Other"..."Do to Others the Way You'd Want Done to You"...and let's not forget all the "Don't Worry", "Love Your Enemy", "Return Evil for Evil to No One" etc.
I submit: By any "general" standard of success...Jesus' ability to get out an influential and enduring message to "the world", was/is superlative.
Only rank bias would view Jesus as having "failed" as a minister.
I get what you mean of course. and if you want to believe that Jesus intended to get us to all be nice to one another (not that Christianity has notably achieved that) and never mind the total tangental doctrine of the Paulinist - Vatican church, then one can do so. Using such reasoning, many efforts that have failed can be considered to have succeeded because of a social legacy (1).
I think that is a bit of the usual reinventing of meanings to try to keep the appearance of another meaning afloat. Equivocation, a theist favourite.
Now my take is a historical one, and it is arguable. It is that Jesus has a definite intention in mind and it was not to redeem humans by a (very short) personal sacrifice, much less to turn gentiles into equal participants with Jews in the promise of Abraham. It was to free Jewry from Pagan foreign rule. And in that sense, when I talk of a failed ministry, I use it in a very specific, historical way.
I understand the way you use it, and, as I say, I think it is misconceived, but many will disagree with me. At least for a decade or so yet.
(1) Napoleon, for instance, leaving behind the legal code of France. A more worthwhile legacy, I'd say, than the waffle from the pulpits.
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