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Old 02-12-2014, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post

I'm not particularly fond of historical revisionists,
Shouldn't you judge the revision rather than the concept of revisionism? You might be dealing with an agenda fueled revisionist who begins with a conclusion and then takes a selective approach to the facts and a narrow interpretation designed to shoehorn all into the pre existing thesis. I'm not fond of those folks either.

On the other hand a revisionist could also be someone who makes a valid correction of a false image from the past. Was George the Third actually any sort of tyrant? Was Custer really heroic? Was Thomas Jefferson actually more of a pragmatist than idealist? Were the native tribes really savages or "noble" savages?

Without revisionists, we would be stuck with one version of events regardless of the truth of the matter.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:24 AM
 
1,311 posts, read 1,528,808 times
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The themes from the Book of Philemon are Love, Faith, and Koinonia.
Love
Philemon 1:5-6 because I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus. I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ.

Philemon 1:7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.

Philemon 1:9 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love.

Faith
Philemon 1:5 because I hear about your love for all his holy
people and your faith in the Lord Jesus. ...

Philemon 1:6 I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening
your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ. ...

Koinonia-partnership
Philemon 1:6 I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ.

In 430 some words Paul writes a letter to Philemon that entire books have been written explaining. Here we find one of the first Christian episodes of worldly ethics and Christian ethics colliding. Paul butters Philemon up, then appeals to him as a Christian brother and friend to take new Christian Onesimus back, as a brother in Christ. Whether this meant to literally take him back or to free him is unclear and debated among scholars with nothing better to do.

Also intriguing is that Paul is literally in prison as Onesimus figuratively was as a slave. Paul also refers to himself as a slave for Jesus Christ. Philemon is beloved to Paul, Paul is beloved to Onesimus, referring to him as a son. Both are Christians because of Paul. For Philemon the slave owner to accept Onesimus the thieving runaway slave as a brother rocked the social order of the day for slaves were mere chattel.

What happened we're not sure. However, the name Onesimus turns up again in an early church writing of Ignatius to a church in Ephesus with a bishop named Onesimus. Some scholars allude that parts of the letter tie this Onesimus to Philemon.

Some have suggested the Book of Philemon sowed the seeds of abolition. Others say the opposite, that Paul was too soft on the issue of slavery. I think he did what he could given the times, letting God do the rest.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:04 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,177,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Were the native tribes really savages or "noble" savages?
If you're referring to Native Americans they were neither. They were native tribes. The "savage" label was slapped on them by people who invaded their land, decimated their people and their herds and then were quite upset that they fought back. Or decided they were all uncivilized barbarians because they weren't white Christians. Never mind that many of them were civilized enough to grow crops and build water delivery systems. They didn't know Jesus! Must be savages.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 02-12-2014 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
If you're referring to Native Americans they were neither. They were native tribes.
That was the point, that without revision such views prevail.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:44 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,177,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
That was the point, that without revision such views prevail.
Obviously. Your use of the term "savages" being Exhibit #1. (Native tribes don't call themselves savages. A revision of what they were took place with the arrival of non-natives.)

Last edited by DewDropInn; 02-12-2014 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,920,829 times
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The point is tat popular culture largely indicated less than salubrious perceptions of native Americans until such breakthroughs as Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:24 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,323,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Shouldn't you judge the revision rather than the concept of revisionism? You might be dealing with an agenda fueled revisionist who begins with a conclusion and then takes a selective approach to the facts and a narrow interpretation designed to shoehorn all into the pre existing thesis. I'm not fond of those folks either.

On the other hand a revisionist could also be someone who makes a valid correction of a false image from the past. Was George the Third actually any sort of tyrant? Was Custer really heroic? Was Thomas Jefferson actually more of a pragmatist than idealist? Were the native tribes really savages or "noble" savages?

Without revisionists, we would be stuck with one version of events regardless of the truth of the matter.
I'm talking about the ones trying to fuel an agenda - or the ones who butcher an interpretation of true events. For instance, those who are trying to claim that FDR goaded Japan into declaring war are the kinds of revisionists I'm not very fond of. While Roosevelt did what he did, to be sure, claiming he shut off Japan's oil to goad them into a war has no basis in fact, but it is gaining traction among conservatives eager to sully FDR's place in history as the best president of the 20th Century.

I totally agree that sometimes a new discovery will require history to be revised, but I call those people "historians," not "revisionists."
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