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I originate from the British Isles and have traced my family tree back as far as possible according to documented records. I know that my ancestry came from the Liverpool / Lancashire area in the UK going back as many generations as I could trace.
Just out of interest I thought I'd have a go at one of those 23andme DNA tests to see if what they found matched up and to see if there were any interesting genes in there. The DNA test confirmed what I expected to find - I'm 99.8% European, at least 76% of that is British with a little bit of French, German and Scandinavian thrown in, and 0.1% of me is North African.
I also share 3.3% of my genes with Neanderthals.
Without ever meeting me, 23andme were able to tell me so much about my genetic make-up including my eye colour, and how curly my hair is and something about my general build. All absolutely accurate. This evidence is undeniable. Your DNA is a record of your ancestry and how you evolved.
I wondered if Creationists see any conflict here with the Adam and Eve story?
What do you see as being the first human? Were Adam and Eve created in Africa? In your eyes, what form did the first human being take? Homo sapien, Neanderthal, Homo erectus, Australopithecus? Is this a cause of concern or doubt in your mind that the bible stories may not be completely accurate or do you see no general conflict? If you take Homo sapien to be the first form of human, what do you make of the earlier forms and how do they tie in to the creation story?
A couple of maps to show rough migration patterns:
You ask if we believe in DNA? Of course. And yes--we believe Eden was likely in the area of northern Africa. We believe the first human beings came out of there.
As for the different "species" of humans...I'll admit--I'm not an expert. But what makes you so sure that scientists have it all figured out?
You ask if we believe in DNA? Of course. And yes--we believe Eden was likely in the area of northern Africa. We believe the first human beings came out of there.
As for the different "species" of humans...I'll admit--I'm not an expert. But what makes you so sure that scientists have it all figured out?
Thanks Vizio.
My main question (amongst others) would be:
Do you believe the Homo Sapien species to be the first human form?
You ask if we believe in DNA? Of course. And yes--we believe Eden was likely in the area of northern Africa. We believe the first human beings came out of there.
As for the different "species" of humans...I'll admit--I'm not an expert. But what makes you so sure that scientists have it all figured out?
I thought Eden was located somewhere between the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers.
Cruithne, how much did that test cost?
To take the uncomfortable side of "devil's advocate", after the unprecedented run off from the great flood, the courses of rivers were almost certainly changed dramatically. Those rivers in the time of Eden may have been a long way off from where they run today, maybe even on the African Continent. We just don't know. It's one of those Rumsfeldian "unknowable unknowns".
I originate from the British Isles and have traced my family tree back as far as possible according to documented records. I know that my ancestry came from the Liverpool / Lancashire area in the UK going back as many generations as I could trace.
How far back were you able to go? Using Ancestry.com, genealogy root, and another source, I was able to trace my wife's mother's side back to the 1100's in England, and the 1500's in France on her dad's. My wife's maternal grandfather was a British Consulate in the U.S..
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Just out of interest I thought I'd have a go at one of those 23andme DNA tests to see if what they found matched up and to see if there were any interesting genes in there. The DNA test confirmed what I expected to find - I'm 99.8% European, at least 76% of that is British with a little bit of French, German and Scandinavian thrown in, and 0.1% of me is North African.
I also share 3.3% of my genes with Neanderthals.
Since I've had heart surgery and a stroke, my DNA was tested as part of study for genetic markers. My results were similar to yours which I find interesting since my ancestry is different. My results however were not for family ancestry but medical so the results simply summarized ancestry. I'm just glad the company wrote off the nearly $3000 of the bill since it was a study which insurance would not pay.
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I wondered if Creationists see any conflict here with the Adam and Eve story?
What do you see as being the first human? Were Adam and Eve created in Africa? In your eyes, what form did the first human being take? Homo sapien, Neanderthal, Homo erectus, Australopithecus? Is this a cause of concern or doubt in your mind that the bible stories may not be completely accurate or do you see no general conflict? If you take Homo sapien to be the first form of human, what do you make of the earlier forms and how do they tie in to the creation story?
This is a lot of questions. Admittedly, I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough in this area to answer. I have been looking up each of your questions though online and gathering answers that I think will represent an accurate appraisal, but it will take time. From what I've read so far regarding Adam and
Eve in particular, there is no consensus for two creation geneticists looking at the same data have differing conclusions.
One question I can answer from my own experience. The majority of our congregation doesn't spend time trying to reconcile DNA migration. Many probably never heard of it. This doesn't mean they are stupid, I believe they simply operate more in a faith mode and spend time on other activities. How many of the 600 men, women and children who come to our church each Sunday for the 2 English and 1 Spanish services we offer believe every word in the Bible I couldn't tell you.
Are we still learning new things about DNA? Do we know it all today?
Science is always proving itself wrong.
The answers are yes and no. But your conclusion is incorrect. Science sometimes proves itself mistaken (seldom fundamentally anymore these days, as we're well beyond bleeding and leeches in our understanding of medicine, for instance) and sometimes proves itself correct. It is based on skepticism and falsification and thrives on falsifiable hypotheses. It does not mind altering a theoretical framework to accommodate new discoveries. These are all Good Things, as evidenced by the fact that you use electricity and computers and are happy to ask your doctor for advice on various things despite the fact that he can't make up his mind whether eggs are good or bad for you this week.
It's just a process of continuous refinement. This flexibility is a virtue, and the inflexibility of dogma is a vice. The latter cannot adapt (well, not readily at any rate) to new information because at least for fundamentalists, dogma represents a revealed and immutable framework, not a methodology for discovering facts and incorporating them into various frameworks of understanding.
The only way dogma can adapt is very slowly over time, so that it doesn't appear to change for any given generation and thus maintains the illusion of immutability. That is why Pope Francis for example is presenting his leadership initiatives in the RCC as a shift of emphasis and is not actually changing any dogma. He needs a generation or two to get the faithful's minds out of various ruts and quit paying attention to certain dogmas so that hopefully one of his successors can change the dogma without anyone taking much notice.
Religion is what is "always proving itself wrong" but with high levels of deniability. The truth is, a first century Christian would not recognize your dogma and you would not recognize theirs.
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