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Why would one not be extraordinary if the adoption of religion causes that person to impact another life for good? "Be the change you want to see in the world" has some merit.
Any Christian who's walking with the Lord knows that they are just a vessel by which His good works flow through. There's nothing extraordinary about us. In fact, average people are chosen to do the works of the Lord so that it's clear who should get the glory (God). This way, no one boasts and we all see each other as equals in the eyes of the Lord. We are saved by His grace, and do works according to Him being extraordinary, not we ourselves. Other people are watching and when they see someone who is considered average (for example Moses who stuttered, lacked confidence and faith), then they know something other than that person is at work and it brings them closer to God. People tend to make idols of those they consider extraordinary, rather than turning to the saving grace of God.
Imagine how big our heads would get if we decided to take all the credit? That would defeat the whole purpose of walking with the Lord, which is to remain humble, lowly, and ready to be used for His will.
Some religions do require good works to make people feel extraordinary. If you are part of one of these religions, then it's different from Christianity. That's why I posted Ephesians 2:9.
Any Christian who's walking with the Lord knows that they are just a vessel by which His good works flow through. There's nothing extraordinary about us. In fact, average people are chosen to do the works of the Lord so that it's clear who should get the glory (God). This way, no one boasts and we all see each other as equals in the eyes of the Lord. We are saved by His grace, and do works according to Him being extraordinary, not we ourselves. Other people are watching and when they see someone who is considered average (for example Moses who stuttered, lacked confidence and faith), then they know something other than that person is at work and it brings them closer to God. People tend to make idols of those they consider extraordinary, rather than turning to the saving grace of God.
Imagine how big our heads would get if we decided to take all the credit? That would defeat the whole purpose of walking with the Lord, which is to remain humble, lowly, and ready to be used for His will.
Some religions do require good works to make people feel extraordinary. If you are part of one of these religions, then it's different from Christianity. That's why I posted Ephesians 2:9.
If by "significant" you mean validating one's own idea of self, then yes, religion often serves to do just that. Not in all cases. But, for example, you can see it right here when someone of evangelical fervor bites - hook, line and sinker - into a strictly fundamentalist view of reality as defined by a literal interpretation of scripture.
In other words a literalist view gives the person power to judge others and allows him to rise above the riff-raff and claim a superior moral ground. That bolsters their own ego, their own sense of "self." When someone dares to question fundamentalism then the literalist feels as though someone dares to question his very right of existence. He then becomes defensive and retreats even further into fundamentalism in order to sooth his own ego.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but strong identification with any dogma, group or role in life, whether it's a particular brand of religion, a particular football team or a particular job, always produces this result.
I'd argue that many flavors of religion first eats away at one's sense of dignity and worth by labeling persons outside the faith as sinners, unable to do anything worthy or valid (all our righteousness is as filthy rags). THEN religion "enhances" self worth by providing a faux antidote to a faux problem: salvation, regeneration, a new nature, and a book of rules that define "goodness" if followed.
So religion doesn't really bolster anything, at least not the fundamentalist kind I'm most familiar with; religion taketh away first, then magnanimously "giveth". This creates a need you didn't even know you had (or for a certain kind of person who is susceptible to guilt, anxiety, worry and shame, a need you suspected all along you had) and then pronounces you whole from that -- in exchange for fealty, $$ or whatever.
It's a fair point that religion can provide meaning and context for a person's life, but then so can the person themselves. It's like selling snow to Eskimos, basically.
If by "significant" you mean validating one's own idea of self, then yes, religion often serves to do just that. Not in all cases. But, for example, you can see it right here when someone of evangelical fervor bites - hook, line and sinker - into a strictly fundamentalist view of reality as defined by a literal interpretation of scripture.
In other words a literalist view gives the person power to judge others and allows him to rise above the riff-raff and claim a superior moral ground. That bolsters their own ego, their own sense of "self." When someone dares to question fundamentalism then the literalist feels as though someone dares to question his very right of existence. He then becomes defensive and retreats even further into fundamentalism in order to sooth his own ego.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but strong identification with any dogma, group or role in life, whether it's a particular brand of religion, a particular football team or a particular job, always produces this result.
Excellent post.
I think that we're all prone to linking our identity to the groups we belong to. That's why Raider fans and 49er fans actually fight with each other at games. Extreme sports fanaticism seems to me like it's more about self and less about the actual team. Joe Superfan wants to be known as the most die-hard and wildest supporter of his team, not because he thinks that the team's ideals will positively affect the world in any way, but because he gets attention for it.
When I was a Christian, I went to an Assemblies of God church, and there was this one lady who was always "speaking in tongues" as loud as possible. She shivered and twitched while she sang and when she prayed. She carried her Bible with her every, last place she went. The list goes on. At the time, I willfully ignored the obvious, forcing myself to believe that she was some spiritual superhero -- a real Christian mega-talent -- but looking back, I can see that she could just as easily be that guy at the ball game hooting and hollering, with his chest painted and a crazy wig on. In church, she found a place where she could be seen as someone important; the more she gyrated and babbled, the more she reinforced that identity.
So I guess my point is, when are people NOT gaining this personal validation from religion? Even when they do "good deeds" for mankind and for God, are they really being benevolent, or are they being Superfans?
Look, it always seems these observations if true really only apply to Fundamentalists. This might sound shocking but I've never actually met a Fundamentalist in real life; I don't live in the Bible Belt. So, I can only speak for myself as a Liberal Catholic but for me religion has never had the effect of making me feel special, significant, different from other people. In fact, religion genuinely plays little role in my interactions with others and I'm sure on a daily basis I interact with people of various religions and none.
On a message board I once asked atheist why they concentrated so much on the Fundamentalist perspective as the Christian perspective. And I remember the answer I got were odd. They were to the effect if there is a God then they would be Fundamentalist. The perception being a Fundamentalist is the most devout. My suspicion has always been that the atheist and Fundamentalist are really opposite sides of the same coin. Both have a very immature perspective of religion the only difference being whether they believe in a book or not. To me whatever Faith you are exists outside of that dichotomy. I've also learned that there is no way to argue to atheist that Fundamentalism isn't a form of devotion much less greater devotion.
Look, it always seems these observations if true really only apply to Fundamentalists. This might sound shocking but I've never actually met a Fundamentalist in real life; I don't live in the Bible Belt. So, I can only speak for myself as a Liberal Catholic but for me religion has never had the effect of making me feel special, significant, different from other people. In fact, religion genuinely plays little role in my interactions with others and I'm sure on a daily basis I interact with people of various religions and none.
On a message board I once asked atheist why they concentrated so much on the Fundamentalist perspective as the Christian perspective. And I remember the answer I got were odd. They were to the effect if there is a God then they would be Fundamentalist. The perception being a Fundamentalist is the most devout. My suspicion has always been that the atheist and Fundamentalist are really opposite sides of the same coin. Both have a very immature perspective of religion the only difference being whether they believe in a book or not. To me whatever Faith you are exists outside of that dichotomy. I've also learned that there is no way to argue to atheist that Fundamentalism isn't a form of devotion much less greater devotion.
I've never been exposed to anything but fundamentalist Christianity. I have no firm concept of any other variety.
Originally Posted by Astron1000 If by "significant" you mean validating one's own idea of self, then yes, religion often serves to do just that. Not in all cases. But, for example, you can see it right here when someone of evangelical fervor bites - hook, line and sinker - into a strictly fundamentalist view of reality as defined by a literal interpretation of scripture.
In other words a literalist view gives the person power to judge others and allows him to rise above the riff-raff and claim a superior moral ground. That bolsters their own ego, their own sense of "self." When someone dares to question fundamentalism then the literalist feels as though someone dares to question his very right of existence. He then becomes defensive and retreats even further into fundamentalism in order to sooth his own ego.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but strong identification with any dogma, group or role in life, whether it's a particular brand of religion, a particular football team or a particular job, always produces this result.
Not if one understands one is saved by grace and not by personal merit.
I don't look down my nose at anyone because I know I didn't save myself. I was saved solely by God's grace and there is no way to boast.
Grace keeps one humble if they truly understand grace.
Religion says "do."
Christianity says "done."
Religion is the enemy of Christianity.
Not if one understands one is saved by grace and not by personal merit.
I don't look down my nose at anyone because I know I didn't save myself. I was saved solely by God's grace and there is no way to boast.
Grace keeps one humble if they truly understand grace.
Religion says "do."
Christianity says "done."
Religion is the enemy of Christianity.
Unfortunately, the perceived wide gulf between the "reprobate" and the "elect" seems to promote the opposite sense and there develops an "us and them" attitude that found its worst expression in Westboro. I think if those who ascribe to that perception kept Romans 2:14 in mind to balance the hyperbole of how we are "lost" it would be helpful: "(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law."
The gulf between the "saved" and the rest really does not exist.
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