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Is there a point to this thread? If so, posting scripture is really only meaningful to those who already believe it.
Yes there is appoint to this thread. Those who do not believe in God, think those who do are fools...It seems God agrees with the wise. Are you a fool, or are you wise?
Yes there is appoint to this thread. Those who do not believe in God, think those who do are fools...It seems God agrees with the wise. Are you a fool, or are you wise?
You need to read the verses before it and after to get a better understanding
Just an early on reminder that the TOS specifies that city-data is not a "chat room." A number of posts have had to be deleted so far, so please address your posts to discussing the OP.
It is that belief in the claims of religion can look like foolishness.
Ok, says Paul, so I am willing to be a fool for God.
This idea that worldly wisdom or knowledge is lacking and that only faith can tell you that the claims of religion are true (and never mind what science says) are basic to the NT and underlies the whole of the religious debate.
It crops up in the 'How do we know what we know?' question that we so often get down to when debating the god -claim. It is what is behind the idea that religious revelation can tell us truths that science knows very well it can only guess at.
This seems utterly foolish to we atheists and skeptics, because guesswork is never a reliable way to get at any knowledge. Science is the only method with a proven track record in getting reliable data. It is limited and imperfect, but it really is by very far the best we have.
By a curious coincidence (I at least don't see Something More in it) it links with the post I made just now on the faith -basis of religious thought. The believers really do believe that their inspiration is from a divine source and is utterly valid and reliable.
This seems to us goddless bastards utterly foolish and demonstrably so. The revelations they get lead them into denying what has been validated by science but also what hath been revealed to others, who are equally convinced that what hath been revealed to them - e.g insipred interpretation of scripture - is True.
Thus it is pretty evident that this claim to know things on faith is foolishness, and to maintain that they are right in spite of the stonking evidence that they are not, IS foolishness.
But the nature of faith -based denial is that evidence counts for nothing; faith counts for everything. Faith in being right means that evidence and indeed logical reasoning is not a means of getting at the facts but of being put to the service of supporting what they know by Faith to be true anyway. Thus we get data and quotes misused to support the Faith -claim and even science that is wrong is used to support it. I have said elsewhere that validated science is considered by theist apologists of no force where it contradicts the faith (indeed this is one of the tenets of creationism) but anything that even sounds scientific, even if it is quite wrong, is treated as Holy Writ because it seems to support the faith.
This looks quite foolish to us and it is - in any rational way of of thinking. But Rational ways of thinking are just Men's thinking; worldly thinking and not 'God's logic'.
Wisdom is foolishness and foolishness is in fact wisdom. Paul was happy to be a fool for God, and so are many of them
But, as I have said before. I have faith. I have faith that people do want to believe that what they take to be true has a sound basis, and faith -based foolishness is a very fissionable element.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-16-2014 at 04:52 AM..
I find it much more useful to present your question or issue for discussion succinctly, but completely so that everyone can engage the question. Likewise, if you are asserting something, be clear about your view and your reason for holding it. Making others try to guess what you are saying, or what you hold to be true is not useful in a conversation.
The technique of leading questions, and gotchas just reeks of proselytizing, and is a big red flag that says to me, at least, that this person and conversation are both best to be avoided...
-NoCapo
Last edited by mensaguy; 06-16-2014 at 07:04 AM..
Reason: edited reply to orphaned comment
It is that belief in the claims of religion can look like foolishness.
Ok, says Paul, so I am willing to be a fool for God.
This idea that worldly wisdom or knowledge is lacking and that only faith can tell you that the claims of religion are true (and never mind what science says) are basic to the NT and underlies the whole of the religious debate.
It crops up in the 'How do we know what we know?' question that we so often get down to when debating the god -claim. It is what is behind the idea that religious revelation can tell us truths that science knows very well it can only guess at.
This seems utterly foolish to we atheists and skeptics, because guesswork is never a reliable way to get at any knowledge. Science is the only method with a proven track record in getting reliable data. It is limited and imperfect, but it really is by very far the best we have.
By a curious coincidence (I at least don't see Something More in it) it links with the post I made just now on the faith -basis of religious thought. The believers really do believe that their inspiration is from a divine source and is utterly valid and reliable.
This seems to us goddless bastards utterly foolish and demonstrably so. The revelations they get lead them into denying what has been validated by science but also what hath been revealed to others, who are equally convinced that what hath been revealed to them - e.g insipred interpretation of scripture - is True.
Thus it is pretty evident that this claim to know things on faith is foolishness, and to maintain that they are right in spite of the stonking evidence that they are not, IS foolishness.
But the nature of faith -based denial is that evidence counts for nothing; faith counts for everything. Faith in being right means that evidence and indeed logical reasoning is not a means of getting at the facts but of being put to the service of supporting what they know by Faith to be true anyway. Thus we get data and quotes misused to support the Faith -claim and even science that is wrong is used to support it. I have said elsewhere that validated science is considered by theist apologists of no force where it contradicts the faith (indeed this is one of the tenets of creationism) but anything that even sounds scientific, even if it is quite wrong, is treated as Holy Writ because it seems to support the faith.
This looks quite foolish to us and it is - in any rational way of of thinking. But Rational ways of thinking are just Men's thinking; worldly thinking and not 'God's logic'.
Wisdom is foolishness and foolishness is in fact wisdom. Paul was happy to be a fool for God, and so are many of them
But, as I have said before. I have faith. I have faith that people do want to believe that what they take to be true has a sound basis, and faith -based foolishness is a very fissionable element.
Foolishness is putting one's complete faith in faulty man's ability to logic and reason. And for every advance forward that man seems to make, there is a big step backwards towards screwing things up and making life worse (global warming for instance).
Yet whenever science seems to propose evidence that goes against Christianity, the atheist believes it 100% without question yet at the same time will gladly admit that science is constantly self-correcting. That's a bit hypocritical.
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in it) it links with the post I made just now on the faith -basis of religious thought. The believers really do believe that their inspiration is from a divine source and is utterly valid and reliable.
