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Honestly, it's hard for me to get worked up over this. First, a full medical exam and psychological evaluation is required before exorcism is performed in the RCC, so at least you know that these "possessed" individuals are being looked at by professionals. Second, the RCC rite of exorcism is little more than specific prayers and a sprinkling of water...it's not like they're drilling holes in people's heads to let the demons out. In my mind, there are plenty of RCC/Christian doctrines that cause far more harm than the RCC exorcism rite.
Honestly, it's hard for me to get worked up over this. First, a full medical exam and psychological evaluation is required before exorcism is performed in the RCC, so at least you know that these "possessed" individuals are being looked at by professionals. Second, the RCC rite of exorcism is little more than specific prayers and a sprinkling of water...it's not like they're drilling holes in people's heads to let the demons out. In my mind, there are plenty of RCC/Christian doctrines that cause far more harm than the RCC exorcism rite.
Thanks.
The complaint isn't the severity of the ceremony or bad consequences which must follow. Rather it is a general frustration at seeing this medieval claptrap kept alive in any form by anyone, and especially frustrating seeing it come from a Pope who had been sending signals that he felt the same way.
The complaint isn't the severity of the ceremony or bad consequences which must follow. Rather it is a general frustration at seeing this medieval claptrap kept alive in any form by anyone, and especially frustrating seeing it come from a Pope who had been sending signals that he felt the same way.
Hello Grandstander.
It's not that I don't see your point, but I suppose it is a matter of expectations. I would never have expected the RCC to do away with exorcism, so I guess I'm less disappointed. I don't know what your background is, but I was raises in the RCC through my teen years. While "modern" in some respects (e.g. accepting evolution) it is a very conservative organization in others, including the dependance on ritual that is ingrained in Roman Catholicism from its roots in pre-literate society.
It's not that I don't see your point, but I suppose it is a matter of expectations. I would never have expected the RCC to do away with exorcism, so I guess I'm less disappointed. I don't know what your background is, but I was raises in the RCC through my teen years. While "modern" in some respects (e.g. accepting evolution) it is a very conservative organization in others, including the dependance on ritual that is ingrained in Roman Catholicism from its roots in pre-literate society.
Thanks.
My background is Catholic as well. I wasn't expecting Francis to announce that exorcism had been decommissioned or unsanctified or whatever the Church calls it when they alter a previous teaching, but to go to the trouble of slapping the seal of approval on it, when it didn't seem at all necessary...why? Was there some sudden need to pander to the hyper superstitious?
I would have thought that Francis' attitude toward exorcism would have been one which held it best to just sort of sweep it into a closet somewhere and forget about it entirely.
Well figure CC exorcism is just 'religious psychotherapy' without focusing on sex.
Freud and his followers were also driving out demons too from suffering people, eh? That claptrap was hard to follow too with all talk about mommy, daddy, sex, whatever. When Sig came out with all of that people were in the streets wringing their hands into their faces.........;-)...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric
Well figure CC exorcism is just 'religious psychotherapy' without focusing on sex.
Freud and his followers were also driving out demons too from suffering people, eh? That claptrap was hard to follow too with all talk about mommy, daddy, sex, whatever. When Sig came out with all of that people were in the streets wringing their hands into their faces.........;-)...
It depends though.
Does the subject just "feel" an evil presence with in themselves. But is otherwise connected to reality. This is Where psychoanalysis like Freud's could possibly work. So your comparison of it could work in this instance.
Or is the subject experiences sensations/perceptions ( hearing voices, feeling of been watched constantly, seeing things that can't be seen by others, etc.) that seem real to them...but can be plainly seen by other ( professionals and even non-professional) as things that are completely detached from reality. Here Freud's "couch" probably won't be all that useful....until the meds kick in. So your comparision from my pov does not seem to pan out that well here.
Last edited by baystater; 07-04-2014 at 11:26 PM..
If you have the time, ask a priest what they think about exorcism. Their answer may surprise you, as the majority of them see it as superstitious rubbish as well. For many of them, and the people they help, it is the ritual that is important. The very same reason ritual has always been important to people.
I am a young priest in the Diocese of ….. A number of months ago you posted from a conference on exorcism you attended in Tulsa. In one of those posts you said something to the effect that there are things bishops and priests need to know. That comment has been rattling around in my mind since I read it. Also, situations occasionally come to my attention and I don’t really know how to deal with them. I went to the Josephinum and we were taught precisely zero about this stuff. Do you have any resources to which you could direct me ?
If you cite this email, please remove any identifiers. Thank you for your blog, your witness, and your priesthood.
It is not a surprise that you didn’t hear much about this.
BUT…
Exorcists say that “problems” are on the rise.
They also say that Latin is best, but… “Get it right”… because the demon corrects bad Latin.
If it's considered "rubbish" why are there conferences? Why are problems on the rise?
If it's considered "rubbish" why are there conferences? Why are problems on the rise?
I cannot speak for the content of the conferences in detail - I provide a link at the end of the post concerning one from several years ago that is interesting.
I am familiar with how many priests view exorcism, however, and that was my point. There are always those who will take a very conservative and extreme view of a subject matter, and they do not always represent the majority of views. Christian Fundamentalism is an example of that. If one were to generalize Christian Fundamentalism as representative of all Christian groups, one would come away with a very bleak view of Christianity. A false view, to be sure.
Most priests are highly educated, nowadays, in science and Biblical Scholarship since the famous encyclical of Pope Pius XII in 1943: Divino Afflante Spiritu, which opened the doors for Catholics to engage in critical Biblical Scholarship. This isn't to say that they were ignorant of such things prior to that. They were just forbidden from engaging in them publicly. The encyclical was an important event in Catholicism and paved the way for Catholics joining the scientific discussion that Protestants and Jews had been engaging in for quite some time. Despite constant attacks from more conservative quarters of Catholicism, the Vatican II's Dei Verbum helped to solidify the status of the "new" state of affairs. This article has some good information on it: Biblical Scholarship 50 years After Divino Afflante Spiritu | America Magazine.
Anyways, priests and scholars are no longer limited to theological schools. They very frequently attend secular schools of learning, and some of the more theological journals of the past have now become more scholarly in their outlook (Catholic Bible Quarterly, to name one).
Pointing out a post from a possibly conservative priest and mentioning a few conferences does not remove the fact that the vast majority of Catholic Priests and Scholars look at the idea of real, actual demons from Old Scratch as very silly indeed. The current Pope should be evidence enough of that as it is. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with this group of exorcists to speak enough about their actual practices, but I still cannot admit that they represent the consensus view of Catholics today even if I did know that much about them. This article from some years back points out that there are very few actual exorcists in America, and the only reason a renewed interest in training more (the conferences you mention) was begun was to try to determine the people who actually needed medical assistance from people supposedly possessed: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/us/13exorcism.html?_r=0. To me, that's an improvement, and if one reads between the lines, a Catholic viewpoint that demon-possession is not what many used to think emerges.
Why did you violate his request and publish his identifiers?
A conservative Protestant pastor showing respect to a Catholic, who he probably thinks represents Babylon and all false religion? That will be the day, methinks!
I have a few books from ages ago on the dangers of Catholicism, written by fiery Protestants intent on making their way the only way. They are both troubling and entertaining.
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