Share you modern day miracles (prophet, Islam, Muslims, Holy Spirit)
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There are a number of reasons that I don't find this convincing.
1. We have absolutely no proof that this ever happened. It could simply be a story you made up a few minutes ago.
2. Even if told to you first hand, the vet may have made it up.
3. Memories are fallible. We are constantly rewriting our memories, changing, enhancing. Even if the vet thinks he is telling the exact story, he may be mistaken.
4. Maybe he is embellishing the story to make a better tale.
5. Maybe he saw a map of the area prior to the mission, knew the cliff was in the area, an coincidentally stopped.
I can come up with more. Given all of these possibilities, all of which are more likely than divine intervention, it seems prudent to me to not accept your tale as a miracle.
What gets me is why this veteran would be operating a tank in a region where a sizeable cliff is located - but didn't know anything about the cliff. I mean, okay, I guess he could've been a bad tank commander by venturing into terrain without knowing it beforehand - and not having a map - but seriously, I wouldn't want to go into combat with a person like that.
Gunner: "Well, uh, how do we know what kind of ground is out there? If it's muddy or sandy or if the soil is too loose, our tracks could get stuck. Remember how much they had to recon the beaches at Normandy? That's why."
Commander: "Screw it. We don't need no stinkin' map. If something bad is about to happen or if we're about to hit dangerous ground unfriendly to tracked vehicles, God will let me know and I'll take action."
Loader: "Sir, uh ... perhaps I should dismount the vehicle and recon on foot ..."
And here's something else. What kind of tank commander or driver operates a tank completely blind? Even when a tank is buttoned up, the driver can still see. Unless the tank is rigged for NBC warfare - but then you probably wouldn't be moving around.
I think that vet is pulling 'gabfest's' leg. No, not just pulling it, more like yanking it out of its socket.
What gets me is why this veteran would be operating a tank in a region where a sizeable cliff is located - but didn't know anything about the cliff. I mean, okay, I guess he could've been a bad tank commander by venturing into terrain without knowing it beforehand - and not having a map - but seriously, I wouldn't want to go into combat with a person like that.
Gunner: "Well, uh, how do we know what kind of ground is out there? If it's muddy or sandy or if the soil is too loose, our tracks could get stuck. Remember how much they had to recon the beaches at Normandy? That's why."
Commander: "Screw it. We don't need no stinkin' map. If something bad is about to happen or if we're about to hit dangerous ground unfriendly to tracked vehicles, God will let me know and I'll take action."
Loader: "Sir, uh ... perhaps I should dismount the vehicle and recon on foot ..."
And here's something else. What kind of tank commander or driver operates a tank completely blind? Even when a tank is buttoned up, the driver can still see. Unless the tank is rigged for NBC warfare - but then you probably wouldn't be moving around.
I think that vet is pulling 'gabfest's' leg. No, not just pulling it, more like yanking it out of its socket.
I have been in meetings specifically for healing and have those that needed healing, and my son and I would pray for them and they saw recovery instantly.
One lady every one knew had scoliosis, and every one could see the condition it was that obvious .
After praying for her she was healed so obviously, many more people got in line to be prayed for .
Because she was local I saw her in town a few years later, and asked her how she was doing, and she said never a problem, and in fact had fallen in a rotten meter box, and feared the return but she is fine .
Doesn't matter whether you believe it, she does, and it matters to her.
Doesn't something like this make you wonder why these 'healers' don't spend all their time instantly healing ..why people aren't lined up by the hundreds. nay, thousands, to be cured?
Someone with the capability to heal wouldn't need a regular job and wouldn't need to do the horribly un-Christian thing like charge.
I've no doubt they would be completely supported even better than most pastors/ministers.
Would you not expect that there would be no disabilities at all among the faithful believers in this one town, at the very least?
Would you like to be accused of dancing around a question? I gave an answer. I don't dance for you or anyone else.
but you did dance around the question, you didn't answer it. You told a very nice story about a veteran however that story had nothing to do with the question that was asked. Would you care to answer the question?
but you did dance around the question, you didn't answer it. You told a very nice story about a veteran however that story had nothing to do with the question that was asked. Would you care to answer the question?
And you are an antagonistic-liar.
You and the gallery stated the honorably discharged vet's account was a lie. Why would you like hear more from someone you've accused of being a liar and delusional?
You and the gallery stated the honorably discharged vet's account was a lie. Why would you like hear more from someone you've accused of being a liar and delusional?
osay.
Calm down, nobody is calling anyone a liar. Can you share a miracle that happened to you, first hand?
You and the gallery stated the honorably discharged vet's account was a lie. Why would you like hear more from someone you've accused of being a liar and delusional?
osay.
I made no accusations of you as to being a liar, I called you no names and I did not question your religious belief and I resent the fact that you are making such accusations of me when I made none of you. I merely asked if your story was appropriate to the question that was asked. You seem to be taking offense at something that was not said to or about you, not by me anyway. Your story about the veteran is a nice story but it has no bearing in this thread.osayio..
You and the gallery stated the honorably discharged vet's account was a lie. Why would you like hear more from someone you've accused of being a liar and delusional?
osay.
Actually, I think you are referring to me. Of my five options below, only one is that the vet is making up the story. Another is that you are. The other three are variations on exaggeration or fallible memory.
Add in misunderstanding, miscommunication, leaving out some facts (he knew there was a cliff in the area...), and I can imagine many, many ways in which the story us neither a lie nor true. Nor a miracle.
It simply is not a convincing tale of miraculous events.
How do you feel about Mohammed's night-time flight to Jerusalem? Do you believe this miracle simply because it was claimed? How about Joseph Smith's golden tablets? Yogis who have not eaten food in many years?
All are tales of miracles. Do you believe them without doubt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
There are a number of reasons that I don't find this convincing.
1. We have absolutely no proof that this ever happened. It could simply be a story you made up a few minutes ago.
2. Even if told to you first hand, the vet may have made it up.
3. Memories are fallible. We are constantly rewriting our memories, changing, enhancing. Even if the vet thinks he is telling the exact story, he may be mistaken.
4. Maybe he is embellishing the story to make a better tale.
5. Maybe he saw a map of the area prior to the mission, knew the cliff was in the area, an coincidentally stopped.
I can come up with more. Given all of these possibilities, all of which are more likely than divine intervention, it seems prudent to me to not accept your tale as a miracle.
When I was married to my ex who turned severely SDA, and was practicing exorcisms to "cure the mentally ill by driving the devil out of them", she claimed miracles happened on a weekly basis.
Those were substantiated by the pastor she was learning under to perform those exorcisms.
I was glad for her that she could live in her fantasies, and hence she was my ex.
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