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How would the world be different? Would another religion dominate Europe and spread to the new world? Would Judaism be more prominent? Would Islam have arisen without the bible?
I suspect there would be less blood shed throughout history. But I guess that would depend on what, if any, belief system took root and grew in Christianity's place.
Christianity had a unifying effect on the world. People of different tribes and groups got over their differences and became allies. Of course, in the process of that, the Yin aspect of this is that we got World War I & II (allied nations means people join in the fight and we have large empires locked in struggle versus localized fighting). This is not to say this is a bad thing that Christianity existed. If we did not have Christianity, we would be trapped in endless barbaric fighting, with tribe A trying to oppress B. We have oppressive regimes, but there is hope for a better future.
That is quite a claim. Would you do me the favor of clarifying the statement? Are you saying:
A. Immoral atheist leaders historically outnumber immoral Christian leaders.
B. Immoral atheist leaders are even more immoral than immoral Christian leaders.
C. Christians are innately more moral than atheists.
D. Other (please specify).
Thanks.
No, it's:
E. Non-Christian people have killed more people in the history of the world than 'alleged' Christians by a large margin.
But it's not really a valid point though, is it? It's like asking which of your vegan friends eat the most meat. If 'Christians' are murdering people, than what right do we have to call them followers of Christ?
E. Non-Christian people have killed more people in the history of the world than 'alleged' Christians by a large margin.
But it's not really a valid point though, is it? It's like asking which of your vegan friends eat the most meat. If 'Christians' are murdering people, than what right do we have to call them followers of Christ?
If someone calls themselves a Christian in earnest then they are a Christian.
“Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.”
― Isaac Asimov
I'm inclined to think that, if the Bible had never been compiled, we would have had no Christianity and we would have a whole lot of religious cults, Isis, the Sun -god, Mithras and the other gods coming in with the foederati. It is a moot point whether Islam would have got started. Judaism is the basis and how much the impetus was a reaction against Christianity is debatable. If it was, then maybe Islam would never have got going and we might be in a global view where nobody could claim to have the truth (the blind men and the elephant) but the reality ('God') was approached through various religious vehicles.
However, if Islam HAD got going purely on Judaism - and I think it would have been what it was, whether the Bible was compiled or not - then I see nothing that would have stopped it as effectively as Christian resistance did it at the gates of Vienna.
I rather incline to think that it was Christian colonialism that stopped Islam in the east - Buddhism wouldn't have fought off the jihad - led expansion forever, nor Sikkhism, indefinitely (the last Hindus states without the Raj would long have gone) and, in the end, eventually China and Japan would have been overcome.
E. Non-Christian people have killed more people in the history of the world than 'alleged' Christians by a large margin.
I must confess that I highly doubt the veracity of this claim. Further, I'm fairly confident that you have no evidence to support it, but if I'm wrong please present any information you have.
On the flip side, these folks have taken the trouble to compile a list (incomplete though it may be) of violence that was allegedly tied to Christianity directly:
That doesn't count wars that were fought by Christians incidentally, but one might point out something like the American Civil War. That's 600,000 people killed, mostly Christians killed by Christians. Similar arguments hold for other wars, such as WWI.
There have been many debates about Hitler's religious positions, but there can be little doubt that a vast majority of Nazis were Christians, so WWII combatants were also predominantly Christians killing Christians. As for the nazis who worked at the concentration camps...statistically they were probably majority Christian, but I don't have information to support that.
Quote:
But it's not really a valid point though, is it? It's like asking which of your vegan friends eat the most meat. If 'Christians' are murdering people, than what right do we have to call them followers of Christ?
You can see my thoughts (and those of others) regarding this argument here:
Since Christianity is relatively recent on the time -scale and global explanasion really only over the last few hundred years, it stands to reason that they would have killed less people. But that doesn't mean that they have done any less killing on a one -to one basis than all the others.
On the other hand, if this is an attempt to compare Christian atrocities with atheists ones, then it means you have to be very selective about when and what either these atheists and Christians were so as to get the figures to pan out.
Christianity would have done better had nothing been written.
The unique value of Who Jesus is ,comes from the HOLY SPIRIT ,whom Jesus provided to those the actually choose God's influence in their life .
Matthew 23;8 Jesus directly instructed the disciples NOT to be called teachers father or rabbi or master.
The fact that Paul contradicted this specific instruction, confused things among christians as well as other distortions to Jesus gospel.
2 Peter 2; 1,-20, 1John 2;1,-20,.
Providing the Holy Spirit in the real believer, gave him something that no writing can accomplish, and that is obedience to God on a personal level.
Most people did not even read in those days , yet the believers were instructed of God just the same, remembering that Jesus is the word of God.
Is it possible that one can find God with out scriptures/religion ?
Absolutely.
Several years ago there was missionary that was going through Africa and met a man in an area missionaries had never been, that had been taught of God, all alone .
The man knew God had a son but he did not know His name.
After comparing the things the man was taught of God, the missionary introduced Jesus Christ to him, and every thing came together .
I recently met another man that came to the Lord on his own ,no coaching from any one, and found that the things Jesus taught are the same, and invited Jesus Christ into his life, and subsequently the Holy Spirit became an influence in his life in a most beautiful way.
God reveals Himself to those that will love Him.
But if a man is rebellious, and antagonistic toward God, there is no reason to make any acquaintance, what so ever.
No created THING, is going to manipulate God.
God has preferences, regardless of what some men have said, and views man as individuals, both of value toward His end game plan for things on earth, and some toward eternal value, and some for both.
A man can change his destiny by choosing to change his whole attitude toward God.
And God will help with a man that makes an HONEST effort.
God knows the heart and mind of every living thing.
That is why lies are so offensive.
There is no private thought, God is unaware of.
He knows man's nature , and the end of the planet, as we know it.
The earth was with out form and void at one point when God restored it.
No doubt it is headed in that direction again.
There are a few I know, that have this relationship , it is the narrow way. Jesus said so.
Some men come to God for fire insurance ,not because that love Him.
These have gone either direction having come with ulterior motive and burn up in disappointment .
Faith/devotion is often is tested not to cause a failure but to find a failure and make a choice to fix it or move on.
We do the same thing in production when making things.
We prove them so that we can have confidence in them.
What happens to companies with poor quality control ? they die.
Because a man labels him self Christian does not make him one.
If I call my self a doctor , having neither patients, nor medical training, even though I may know a great deal about medicine and biology and chemistry, I deceive my self and those listening.
The proof of one's relationship with God , is his obedience to Him and the tutelage of the Holy Spirit Jesus provided to teach him in Jesus place. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
Were it to go *poof* today the American economy would take a heck of a hit.
No, there would not be fewer people making money off of it.
There has always been people who cannot cope with life and reality by themselves so they use religion as a safety net. If not Christianity they would invent some other religion to make them feel safe.
I must confess that I highly doubt the veracity of this claim. Further, I'm fairly confident that you have no evidence to support it, but if I'm wrong please present any information you have.
On the flip side, these folks have taken the trouble to compile a list (incomplete though it may be) of violence that was allegedly tied to Christianity directly:
That doesn't count wars that were fought by Christians incidentally, but one might point out something like the American Civil War. That's 600,000 people killed, mostly Christians killed by Christians. Similar arguments hold for other wars, such as WWI.
There have been many debates about Hitler's religious positions, but there can be little doubt that a vast majority of Nazis were Christians, so WWII combatants were also predominantly Christians killing Christians. As for the nazis who worked at the concentration camps...statistically they were probably majority Christian, but I don't have information to support that.
You can see my thoughts (and those of others) regarding this argument here:
Again I will ask you, which of your vegan friends eat the most meat?
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