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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Except you have fallen into a trap. I'm an AARP member and this is from their 2012 report:
Myth #1: Canadians are flocking to the United States to get medical care.
How many times have you heard that Canadians, frustrated by long wait times and rationing where they live, come to the United States for medical care?
I don’t deny that some well-off people might come to the United States for medical care. If I needed a heart or lung transplant, there’s no place I’d rather have it done. But for the vast, vast majority of people, that’s not happening.
The most comprehensive study I’ve seen on this topic — it employed three different methodologies, all with solid rationales behind them — was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.
The graph won't import, but it shows 99% of Canadians do NOT come to the U.S. for health care. Further, some of those who come are SENT BY THE CANADIAN health care system because they have serious conditions which cannot be immediately treated. So those trips are fully paid for by Canadian health care.
The authors of the study started by surveying 136 ambulatory care facilities near the U.S.-Canada border in Michigan, New York and Washington. It makes sense that Canadians crossing the border for care would favor places close by, right? It turns out, however, that about 80 percent of such facilities saw, on average, fewer than one Canadian per month; about 40 percent had seen none in the preceding year.
Then, the researchers looked at how many Canadians were discharged over a five-year period from acute-care hospitals in the same three states. They found that more than 80 percent of these hospital visits were for emergency or urgent care (that is, tourists who had to go to the emergency room). Only about 20 percent of the visits were for elective procedures or care. Canada vs. US Health Care Systems - Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths - AARP
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While Canadians have long wait lines for some non-life-threatening procedures, they actually get relatively excellent ER treatment for emergencies and hospitalization for life-threatening procedures. And they aren't going bankrupt by the tens of thousands after receiving health care. And guess who regularly is voted as the most popular Canadian who ever lived? The guy who founded their health care system!
Having worked six years in a retirement job as a medical records clerk, and my wife just retiring from 25 years as a medical staff director--we would both say that the profit system on which our healthcare is based is atrocious, unfair, completely unaccountable for health care needs of its patients, hospitals fail to publicly publish the outcomes of medical procedures (except where now required for medicare patients---one of the few things Obamacare got right), and true cost of services is hidden from the public. The system is set up to be gouged by cheats--not so much individual cheats, as CORPORATE cheats.
Would to God we had the Canadian system, the British system, even the German system (all quite similar and better than ours).
How does all this tie into religion? Jesus was different from the many other messiahs of His day and age in that He provided His healing for free!! How else could He get droves of people following and listening to Him.
So I believe that availability of healthcare is a primary evidence of "religiosity" or lack of it. Lip service to God is simply a lot of hooey. Watching a third of our nation struggling to get decent health care--as in regular physician visits--while watching the stock market soar tells the world exactly what we as a nation value most.
Thank you, I was about to look up similar studies, as I know they are the truth.
Having spent 3.5 months in intensive care a decade ago, I know how good both the healthcare and the access is here in Canada... when you need it, it is available immediately. Now, things that are non-live threatening, like the MRI I got done on my shoulder, one needs to wait. I DID have the choice to go to a private MRI and pay, but I chose not to do that.
I spent half my time as a snowbird, and have friends in the USA. I am horrified to hear the restrictions on their coverage, the cost and the deductibles they need to pay. The only insurance I pay for is the one I use when I travel to the States, which costs me about $1,000 for 6 months due to a pre-existing condition. My coverage here is included in my taxes, which are comparable to those someone would pay in the States.
Access to healthcare? I moved last year to a country setting and needed a new doctor. It took me 35 minutes to find one and get an appointment for the following week.
The rumors and mistaken 'facts' spread by opponents to universal healthcare is unbelievable. My girlfriend, who happens to live in the States, came here and needed to get a prescription she forgot in the States. She had to pay for the doctor visit, however, all that happened was she walked into a medical clinic, waited for 1.5 hours, got the prescription, and to her surprise, the cost of doctor AND the drug was LESS than her deductible in the USA.
Canada spends 33% less of its GDP on healthcare than the USA, and people live longer here. So, regardless of scaremongering exceptions, the vast majority of Canadians, on all sides of the political spectrum, would not change our system for the USA one.
Yeah, I am amazed at the number of people who do not accept evolution.
For example, one of our most enlightened American Muslim posters said he believes in evolution for all animals, but not for humans. I guess a lot of people simply cannot believe their direct ancestor was non-human.
I do not engage in evolution arguments because I do not care if people believe in it or not. The only time I can recall discussing it was in the Judaism forum where an Orthodox Jewish lady was questioning my beliefs. She was surprised I could believe that my ancestors were non-human.
Even in England, I bet a lot of people do not believe in evolution. Try asking a British person:
Do you believe that you had a one-millionth maternal great-grandmother?
Do you think she was a human or more like a monkey or ape?
All I can tell you hiker is that from my own experience, before moving to the US I had never met single person who didn't just take evolution as-read, no question. I'm not saying these people don't exist, I'm sure there must be some people somewhere that don't accept it in the UK, but I've never met one and I've lived all walks of life.
Evolution is just widely accepted and understood.
Remember, the UK is the birthplace of Darwin himself, it's just ingrained in the British psyche. Anyone who didn't believe it would be viewed as an oddball indeed.
Also as I said, the UK is very small. To illustrate this, you are never at any point further than 70 miles from the coast and you are never further than a few miles from a town or city. Even the least educated people would know about evolution.
I'm from Liverpool. Grew up in a very poor working class family, but one of the things we liked to do that was free at the weekends was visit Liverpool museum which had a permanent evolution exhibition. All big cities would have had something similar. So even as a very young child of about age 5, I understood about human evolution. That was more than 40 years ago.
To be honest I don't even see it as a difficult concept. To me its always been as obvious as the nose on your face. There's nothing to misunderstand.
So when you say you think 'in England, a lot of people don't believe in evolution' I'd say it would be more like a small sprinkling of oddballs.
Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment — the longest they have ever recorded.
People are coming to the US to get elective treatment because people in Canada might have to wait awhile to get it. So yeah, if you want a breast implant, a nose job, or other unnecessary procedure, coming here might be beneficial IF you have the cash lying around. Only ~46,000 Canadians came to the US for treatment in 2011 - which is a drop in the swimming pool. It's not as though Canadians are dying left and right from burst appendices because they have to wait 9 weeks to have them removed. It's ELECTIVE surgery that is drawing people to the US, and only the richest Canadians (or people willing to save for a long time) are doing it.
Plus, there were links to articles bashing Obamacare - I'm betting this site is biased against government-run health care.
Finally, I was hit with pop-up ads that actually opened up tabs on my browser - reputable sites don't do that.
The health care situation in the US is an outrage. A perfect storm of greed, complacency (I'm all right Jack), incompetence, ignorance, confusion, callousness, cowardice, insane litigation (on this score the Right have it right - tort reform). Even the terms that Americans are familiar with and bandy (not so blithely) about lend them self to a kind of oppression - co-pays, deductibles, and most disingenuous of all 'pre-existing conditions' - of course if you happen to live long enough life is a pre-existing condition. We all know about the bandage billed at hundreds of dollars, the ambulance ride that costs as much as a flight across the planet. In many respects re health care, Americans are the most cowed, and least looked after people in the developed world.
Last edited by modernist1; 11-23-2014 at 01:03 PM..
What I'm surprised about is why Canada is different. Both Canada and the U.S. are huge areas with lots of inland space, and both nations are relatively isolated from other nations, giving religious sects the freedom to develop without outside influence.
Both nations were less affected by WW2 than Europe.
Part of it probably has to do with immigration from Mexico into the U.S., but people from that country are mostly Catholic. That wouldn't explain the young earth creationists and Bible-thumping Protestants we're so famous for.
Maybe it's heat. That's it: the hotter it is, the more devout your are. Belief in a higher power comes directly from the sun.
The health care situation in the US is an outrage. A perfect storm of greed, complacency (I'm all right Jack), incompetence, ignorance, confusion, callousness, cowardice, insane litigation (on this score the Right have it right - tort reform). Even the terms that Americans are familiar with and bandy (not so blithely) about lend them self to a kind of oppression - co-pays, deductibles, and most disingenuous of all 'pre-existing conditions' - of course if you happen to live long enough life is a pre-existing condition. We all know about the bandage billed at hundreds of dollars, the ambulance ride that costs as much as a flight across the planet. In many respects re health care, Americans are the most cowed, and least looked after people in the developed world.
I agree with everything but the last. My profession as an underwriter, rate maker, and compliance officer in the insurance field, including for short time medical malpractice, taught me a few things. One, less than two percent of all American health care costs can be attributed to litigation AND premiums. Second, the most profitable line of business for property-casualty companies as a percent of return compared to payout is greatest in the medical malpractice field. As I recall in Florida a few years ago the total cost for medical malpractice costs including underwriting expenses, policy issuance, etc, was only 20% of the dollars collected. Eighty percent was pure profit. Compare that to auto insurance which has a profit of about five to eight percent in the best of years.
The media likes to play up the occasional idiotic reward and that gets everyone whooping and hollering.
The real cost for American health care is the continuing rise in hospital and pharmaceutical charges. And it's easy for them to do because people with insurance have no idea what is really being charged.
And get this, forty percent of all hospital billings are incorrect--and 98% are incorrect with an overcharge. Sound like a mistake to you? It is--the mistake of corporate greed.
If you want to get an idea of how rotten the American system is, read the book Unaccountable, written by a physician who points out we get bad health care because there is no system requiring it to get better. Obamacare did provide some accountability for health outcomes. It will no longer pay for certain conditions that frequently arise in hospitals for poor care--like bedsores. If a patient has to return or is kept longer in the hospital for that--guess what--no reimbursement. And what has been the outcome? Hospitals are taking steps to make sure medicare patients don't have to return to the hospital where they used to get paid a SECOND time for a SECOND stay. But between hospitals and insurance companies there is a complicity to keep costs hidden, and while the hospitals will give exclusivity to some insurance companies, those companies will provide kickbacks for number of patients purchasing their coverage.
While Britain and Canada may have an occasional problem, overall their systems provide better care for the most critical cases (look at outcomes), and is far more just for all their citizens.
And with regard to religiosity, health care for all should be one of the primary indicators of how committed to Christ's teachings any nation is. Our number one export? Weapons of war.
So even as a very young child of about age 5, I understood about human evolution. That was more than 40 years ago.To be honest I don't even see it as a difficult concept. To me its always been as obvious as the nose on your face.
I totally agree but, as we said in an earlier post, it appears that people simply cannot accept that their direct ancestor was non-human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
I'm from Liverpool.
I have been playing a song about Liverpool a lot on the computer recently. It seems that American country music has become very popular in Ireland and there are a lot of Irish musicians playing it. Since our country music is mainly derived from music the Irish and Scottish immigrants brought to America, I think it is interesting how our music is influencing our mother countries.
Maybe the scenes in this video will look familiar to you.
I agree with everything but the last. My profession as an underwriter, rate maker, and compliance officer in the insurance field, including for short time medical malpractice, taught me a few things. One, less than two percent of all American health care costs can be attributed to litigation AND premiums. Second, the most profitable line of business for property-casualty companies as a percent of return compared to payout is greatest in the medical malpractice field. As I recall in Florida a few years ago the total cost for medical malpractice costs including underwriting expenses, policy issuance, etc, was only 20% of the dollars collected. Eighty percent was pure profit. Compare that to auto insurance which has a profit of about five to eight percent in the best of years.
The media likes to play up the occasional idiotic reward and that gets everyone whooping and hollering.
The real cost for American health care is the continuing rise in hospital and pharmaceutical charges. And it's easy for them to do because people with insurance have no idea what is really being charged.
And get this, forty percent of all hospital billings are incorrect--and 98% are incorrect with an overcharge. Sound like a mistake to you? It is--the mistake of corporate greed.
If you want to get an idea of how rotten the American system is, read the book Unaccountable, written by a physician who points out we get bad health care because there is no system requiring it to get better. Obamacare did provide some accountability for health outcomes. It will no longer pay for certain conditions that frequently arise in hospitals for poor care--like bedsores. If a patient has to return or is kept longer in the hospital for that--guess what--no reimbursement. And what has been the outcome? Hospitals are taking steps to make sure medicare patients don't have to return to the hospital where they used to get paid a SECOND time for a SECOND stay. But between hospitals and insurance companies there is a complicity to keep costs hidden, and while the hospitals will give exclusivity to some insurance companies, those companies will provide kickbacks for number of patients purchasing their coverage.
While Britain and Canada may have an occasional problem, overall their systems provide better care for the most critical cases (look at outcomes), and is far more just for all their citizens.
And with regard to religiosity, health care for all should be one of the primary indicators of how committed to Christ's teachings any nation is. Our number one export? Weapons of war.
I totally agree but, as we said in an earlier post, it appears that people simply cannot accept that their direct ancestor was non-human.
I have been playing a song about Liverpool a lot on the computer recently. It seems that American country music has become very popular in Ireland and there are a lot of Irish musicians playing it. Since our country music is mainly derived from music the Irish and Scottish immigrants brought to America, I think it is interesting how our music is influencing our mother countries.
Maybe the scenes in this video will look familiar to you.
Ha! Thanks for posting. Nice video. Nice song too. Yes I recognise every brick of those buildings (and Ricky Tomlinson at the end). No picture taken outside the Liverpool World Museum though which is a shame. It's a beautiful building.
Actually ferrying across the Mersey was another of our cheap weekend days out. You could get a return trip for 5p in those days. We'd do that just for the fun of it (we were easily pleased as kids.)
What I'm surprised about is why Canada is different. Both Canada and the U.S. are huge areas with lots of inland space, and both nations are relatively isolated from other nations, giving religious sects the freedom to develop without outside influence.
Both nations were less affected by WW2 than Europe.
Part of it probably has to do with immigration from Mexico into the U.S., but people from that country are mostly Catholic. That wouldn't explain the young earth creationists and Bible-thumping Protestants we're so famous for.
Maybe it's heat. That's it: the hotter it is, the more devout your are. Belief in a higher power comes directly from the sun.
Maybe a bit of some of the above but mostly, I believe it's because we kept close ties to Europe via Britain and France. We could balance the pervasive influx of American culture blasted from the border cities northward with CBC's and CTV's imports of British programs and Quebec's Francophone programming. We had more of a sense of the world whereas Americans were pretty darn convinced they were the world.
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