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I've always wondered about the whole "God is perfect" thing. I don't see why God would have to be perfect, or why anything would have to be perfect in order to create other things. Why would that be?
It is an attempt to make as much contrast between god and man as possible, with respect to guilt or lack thereof, thus establishing to the fullest possible extent, god's moral authority over man. God is as flawless and perfect as man is flawed and imperfect. Hence one needs god's perfection "imputed" to them (credited to their account) in order to be allowed in god's eternal presence.
In other words it is just for the purpose of making people feel like utter crap just because they are human (as, ironically, god supposedly created them).
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Originally Posted by JerZ
Same with God being all-knowing. Again...you have to know everything in advance in order to create something? Tell that to the researchers who developed Thalydomide or the hydrogen bomb.
Omniscience is also necessary to put people at a psychological disadvantage that can only be solved by getting on god's good side, because "god sees all" and therefore knows about every secret thing you ever did that you were (or "should" be) ashamed of.
For completeness, there is the other leg of the tri-omni theodicy, which is that god is omnipotent (all-powerful). This is necessary in order for him to (1) create everything that exists (except, of course, himself) and (2) to have the absolute power to dangle you over the fires of hell.
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Originally Posted by JerZ
My little son was quizzing me on about a thousand things the other day (I'm sure he'll come up with a thousand more) and he suddenly said, "Mom, how come you know everything?" Props to me for not laughing! Someone or something that seems "far above us" in some way, and appears uber-capable and able to handle everything, appears to us to be incapable of screwing up - but as my little illustration shows, that definitely doesn't have to be true.
Exactly, and when they are teens they figure that out, too ;-)
But then again, maybe it's good for people to have a role model (in their head). So maybe it should be left that way? If there wasn't one, people would just do whatever they wanted and that wouldn't be good... Because letting people do whatever they want is like parents leaving their teenagers in charge of the house and going on vacation for 2 weeks.
They CREATE a good role model out of the "mess" by focusing on the good things. So this created one is a good one.
They think they need to be perfect like God because they are thinking of perfection such as loving your enemies and forgiving and not doing any bad things. Regardless of reality (God's reality or their own), that's what they aspire to. And that's a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
I've always wondered about the whole "God is perfect" thing. I don't see why God would have to be perfect, or why anything would have to be perfect in order to create other things. Why would that be?
Same with God being all-knowing. Again...you have to know everything in advance in order to create something? Tell that to the researchers who developed Thalydomide or the hydrogen bomb.
it isn't necessary except for the demands of human vanity and hubris.
Quote:
My little son was quizzing me on about a thousand things the other day (I'm sure he'll come up with a thousand more) and he suddenly said, "Mom, how come you know everything?" Props to me for not laughing! Someone or something that seems "far above us" in some way, and appears uber-capable and able to handle everything, appears to us to be incapable of screwing up - but as my little illustration shows, that definitely doesn't have to be true.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Ok, JerZ, you ARE omniscient, but can you beat up Tommy's mother down the street?
Some of the things attributed to God seem to me more like boasting on the part of the believers very much like "MY god can beat up YOUR god."
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Originally Posted by JerZ
????????????? I don't understand what this meant/referred to. (The bolded.)
Yes, the second part could be true (as far as human nature goes), and in fact, throughout history, many did convert due to "proof" that another god was more powerful; I think that was probably pretty much standard in various cultures.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Sorry, JerZ, I was presenting how you might appear to the childish mind with your answers being "right all the time" and extending it to other attributes of God from that viewpoint.
Nate frequently expands the implications when he agrees with you, JerZ . . . without using smileys.
Other than losing his temper at the Temple or his being afraid of being crucified and asking that God go back on his plan.
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