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im not good at religious debates. or debating in general. with that said...
theyre just annoying as hell. they try to push your values on you (cookevilleweatherguy is a good example), the way theyre selfish (like they want god to help them), saying things like "god bless you" knowing you dont believe in that, and in turn, intentionally offending me. also, theyre just so fake (such as my family. they like to pretend theyre christian, but theyre racists and they never have anything good to say about anyone unless theyre like them, christian and white. but we should all know religion is fake anyway). i just wish people would wake up to reality around here, but they wont, and because of it, they become more ignorant, and the redneck, and incest stereotypes begin here. i really wish i hadnt developed a southern accent, i really dont want to be associated with this area
Wandering mind, quit while you are behind...its not worth it. You can't argue this case, not in this country and especially not in the south. Let it be, I believe the same as you, and I have just decided to let it alone. It took alot of years, believe me. Religion is a dominant force no matter how much I hate that fact. Some people simply need it to feel good about themselves, they have that right. If someone pushes anything on you, simply get up and walk away. Believe me, the message gets delivered.
I have felt the same way as you, Wondering mind. My parents were racist and so called Christian. I have only been here in TN for two years and I have seen some otherwise very sweet people turn twisted with racist hatred that I am afraid didn't shock me. I knew where I was moving, but I didn't move here for the people, I moved here because it's beautiful here even if the people don't match that beauty.
But many do, and most are Christian. If you get respect, that's all you can reasonably expect.
And many people are moving here from other parts of the country as well that are like me and like you. Not all of them are into the bible but they are extremely loving and wonderful people, I know at least 15 people moving here soon. You just have to speak up for yourself. If people say racist things, you don't have to be rude, just speak up and ask them to spare you that kind of conversation or walk away as someone else said. There are plenty of people that will be your friend that aren't religious, and there will be Christians that are well worth keeping as friends that won't make you feel inferior. People are people not matter what their personal hangups are.
I think most Christians genuinely try to be Christlike, even if it often seems fake and obnoxious, they tend to get over it when you speak up and let them know you aren't into the religion thing.
After 58 years I have honestly found no good reason to believe in god, but generally I have no problem with people that do.
If you experience the hypocrisy of your parents it's not hard to understand where your anxiety comes from. But don't give up on a place because of some of the people. Not everyone is like that, even Christians.
To me, god is like a daddy figure, daddy knows best and do what I say or else I will punish you for all eternity. That works for lots of people, not for all and it will never work for all, because as diverse as the world is, it will never conform to one single view. And that is what makes the world worth living in when you can celebrate diversity rather than live in a world that try's to make everyone conform.
People, including Christians, often don't recognize their own dysfunction, because they see themselves and their own failings as less problematic than those of everyone else. They dislike change so religion, which mostly does not evolve, is a perfect environment for them. Anything out of the norm tends to scare them. And they pass that fear around the world to those who are susceptible to it, and often to people already suffering in one way or the other..
It took me 20 years to shed the paranoia and the guilt trip of the catholic religion, so I would never replace that by jumping from the frying pan into the fire by joining another Christian group. You actually should feel lucky that your parents were dysfunctional, it gave you an insight that many do not posses or that many never learned from. But that insight is no good if you become as dysfunctional or angry with those you disagree with. Better to find like minded people to renew your energy than to argue with those who are unable to see things from other points of view.
Some Christians need to believe they are saved, they use the rest of us to measure their level of salvation. Anything out side of what they believe is of the devil, makes it a pretty simplistic way to view an otherwise extremely diverse universe. No give and take, no gray areas with that kind of belief system.
So I would say no matter where you live there will be those who can not or will not view the world in any other way than from the narrowest biblical point of view.
The history of religion and society should give you a clue why humans gravitate to the idea of god, go find some books on the history of man and how the belief in god progressed from pagan beliefs etc. It's very interesting stuff and will help you have more patience with Christians and others of different faiths. It will also give you some insight as to how politicians use religion to gain control, all very interesting and helps you navigate a very interesting time in history, where religion is the brunt of much of what is dividing our world rather than bring it together.
We all need to strike our own balance, create our own happy existance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp03
Wandering mind, quit while you are behind...its not worth it. You can't argue this case, not in this country and especially not in the south. Let it be, I believe the same as you, and I have just decided to let it alone. It took alot of years, believe me. Religion is a dominant force no matter how much I hate that fact. Some people simply need it to feel good about themselves, they have that right. If someone pushes anything on you, simply get up and walk away. Believe me, the message gets delivered.
In many ways, religion has little to do with Wandering Mind's dissatisfaction with living in TN. Just like all of us there are people and situations in our society that irritate us to no end.
For W-M, it is the very vocal in-your-face message that SOME self-proclaimed Christians push on everyone. This is particularly true in the SE, but does occur throughout the world - if not Christian, then some other belief.
The crux of the matter is that we all have some bit of sand in our shoes - can't stand the haughty wealthy jerk who thinks all we have to do is wait on him, the guys who tell dirty jokes to all of the women in the office, the MacDonald's kid that can't figure out how to make change, the politician who has a different stand in each town he visits, the neighbor who sends his dog to crap in your yard, the brother-in-law who complains about everything just to complain. You name it - IT'S irritating.
But, we find a way to adjust, to avoid, to put our own lives first. This, Wandering Mind, is what you are missing. You don't have to listen to anyone's religious message, you don't have to live in any state that you don't want to be in, you can get your education any place, and you can gripe about your dislike of all of those who irritate you on this forum.
But, what are YOU going to do about it? Nobody can make it better for you - except you. So, pick yourself up, brush the dust from you shoes, and start walking to the beat that you want to live by.
By the way, I am a Christian, do engage in religious conversations, but once someone says they aren't interested, I can talk about just anything!!! Look for folks like that. We are not all single-faceted. We are not just religious, or just political, or just concerned with the economy - we have loads of interests. Talk about some of them!!
Wondering Mind...simple solution is to just pretend you are Christian, just like the majority of Americans who are obese, divorced, etc...yet call themselves Christian even while not following the rules of the Bible itself. Christianity seems to be what each person or group wants it to be, regardless of the details from the book in which it is taken...and it has evolved over the centuries into the "reformed" version of today in which anyone can do anything in life, good or bad, yet simply ask for forgiveness...and "poof", they will go to heaven via absolute forgiveness without limits. So study up convict, those 8 people you murdered last night won't stop you from heaven...all you have to do is ask (Does city-data have heaven crime rates???) Thus if you stretch it far enough, perhaps one could start the "Agnostic Church of Christ", make hundreds of millions in non-taxable profits (need a cable channel to promise the masses they will get what they desire in this life "if only" they donate every week to the pastor...uh I meant God who loves greenbacks and mega churches), yet have the freedom to believe that something bigger than all of us exists in some phase and/or in some dimension beyond our reason....yet we are not, and never will be, smart enough to comprehend, so thus the only option is "faith". Unfortunately fact and faith are confused by the world at large...turning religion from the necessary social fabric of all peaceful human societies, into a naive and perverted view of narrow-mindedness that spawns evils such as past and current religious crusades...
So what say thee...go start your new church and be happy, I'd just suggest you don't locate it in the Southern Bible-belt...=)
I have felt the same way as you, Wondering mind. My parents were racist and so called Christian. I have only been here in TN for two years and I have seen some otherwise very sweet people turn twisted with racist hatred that I am afraid didn't shock me. I knew where I was moving, but I didn't move here for the people, I moved here because it's beautiful here even if the people don't match that beauty.
But many do, and most are Christian. If you get respect, that's all you can reasonably expect.
And many people are moving here from other parts of the country as well that are like me and like you. Not all of them are into the bible but they are extremely loving and wonderful people, I know at least 15 people moving here soon. You just have to speak up for yourself. If people say racist things, you don't have to be rude, just speak up and ask them to spare you that kind of conversation or walk away as someone else said. There are plenty of people that will be your friend that aren't religious, and there will be Christians that are well worth keeping as friends that won't make you feel inferior. People are people not matter what their personal hangups are.
I think most Christians genuinely try to be Christlike, even if it often seems fake and obnoxious, they tend to get over it when you speak up and let them know you aren't into the religion thing.
After 58 years I have honestly found no good reason to believe in god, but generally I have no problem with people that do.
If you experience the hypocrisy of your parents it's not hard to understand where your anxiety comes from. But don't give up on a place because of some of the people. Not everyone is like that, even Christians.
To me, god is like a daddy figure, daddy knows best and do what I say or else I will punish you for all eternity. That works for lots of people, not for all and it will never work for all, because as diverse as the world is, it will never conform to one single view. And that is what makes the world worth living in when you can celebrate diversity rather than live in a world that try's to make everyone conform.
People, including Christians, often don't recognize their own dysfunction, because they see themselves and their own failings as less problematic than those of everyone else. They dislike change so religion, which mostly does not evolve, is a perfect environment for them. Anything out of the norm tends to scare them. And they pass that fear around the world to those who are susceptible to it, and often to people already suffering in one way or the other..
It took me 20 years to shed the paranoia and the guilt trip of the catholic religion, so I would never replace that by jumping from the frying pan into the fire by joining another Christian group. You actually should feel lucky that your parents were dysfunctional, it gave you an insight that many do not posses or that many never learned from. But that insight is no good if you become as dysfunctional or angry with those you disagree with. Better to find like minded people to renew your energy than to argue with those who are unable to see things from other points of view.
Some Christians need to believe they are saved, they use the rest of us to measure their level of salvation. Anything out side of what they believe is of the devil, makes it a pretty simplistic way to view an otherwise extremely diverse universe. No give and take, no gray areas with that kind of belief system.
So I would say no matter where you live there will be those who can not or will not view the world in any other way than from the narrowest biblical point of view.
The history of religion and society should give you a clue why humans gravitate to the idea of god, go find some books on the history of man and how the belief in god progressed from pagan beliefs etc. It's very interesting stuff and will help you have more patience with Christians and others of different faiths. It will also give you some insight as to how politicians use religion to gain control, all very interesting and helps you navigate a very interesting time in history, where religion is the brunt of much of what is dividing our world rather than bring it together.
Most everything you said is not accurate at all. The number 1 inaccuracy is the idea that Christians measure their salvation by looking down on others, and saying at least I'm better than that. Either you’re saved or you’re not. It is not a measurement of being better than others, rather a measurement to God’s expectations regardless of how good or bad others are.
That being said, I do understand your gripe that some Christians are Hypocrites. This is very true. It does not answer the question though about what is wrong with Christianity. Obviously if someone in your life has shown you that they preach one thing on Sunday morning, but act very differently the other days of the week then the problem is that other person. Again, one of the very foundations of our faith is to love others, and try our best to emulate Christ. If some don’t do that it is their own fault. It is not because the principles of their faith tell them to. It's like blaming GM for a person speeding or driving drunk, and then killing someone. It’s not GM’s fault that you misused the vehicle they built.
Also, you are way off base about it being racist. Again if one person or group uses Christianity to promote racist beliefs they are not practicing Christianity, but instead are creating their own cult. YES the KKK is a cult. The Christian faith is open to any race.
I think the number one objection I hear to Christianity is that someone knew one and thought they were a hypocrite, so therefore made a general assumption about the faith, and then started proclaiming that the whole concept is evil, racist, naive, etc...
It is the not the fault of the belief that some misrepresent the belief. They are straying from the main message and idea of Christianity.
Exactly what I would have expected, but from my point of view of far too many christians in my experience, it is accurate.
I am too tired to argue the point much further. Maybe some christians should spend more time dealing with other christians are at missing the message then, than spending so much time complicating others lives. Often christians are insulated from those christians that make them look bad. Might we at least agree on that?..
Often christians are insulated from those christians that make them look bad. Might we at least agree on that?..
Not neccesarily insulted, but very dissapointed and even ashamed. It is not a fair nor true representation of the principles of Christianity. Unfortunately, there are too many cases of this occuring. It is also very biblical that we confront those Christians who don't strive to those priciples. However, it doesn't nor should it deter many from spreading the Gospel.
I am sorry that you disagree, but it is very true that some people fail as Christains, but that the rules and principles are perfect. Again, if the principles are followed, then it is impossible for anyone to launch a reasonble argument against its treatment of people no matter the race.
I didn't say insulted, I said insulated, meaning some christians never witness the kind of things christians do in their god's name. I think I have spoken quite honestly about the christians I have experienced that give other christians a bad name. And what I believe christians foster when they don't speak out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Yes there should be a separation of church and state. And "In God's Name we Trust" should be taken off the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Might wanna check your bills, they might be counterfeit!
You knew what I meant. See what happens when I get in a hurry. I've tried to tell my other personalities to double check the other, but they don't listen to me.
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