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No doubt. Of all the 613 laws, the only one that applies to modern society is some archaic referfence to "sleeping" together...should that had said SEXUAL RELATIONS and not slpeeping or lying??
Funny how people just ignore the concept of the Old Convent and New Convent. I tell ya what, go ahead and ignore the OT laws about homosexuality. The NT is quite plain enough for me on the topic:
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:27
See that word "natural"? That means it is unnatural to have same sex relations. If that isn't plain enough, it also says same sex relations are "shameful acts".
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Funny how people just ignore the concept of the Old Convent and New Convent. I tell ya what, go ahead and ignore the OT laws about homosexuality. The NT is quite plain enough for me on the topic:
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:27
See that word "natural"? That means it is unnatural to have same sex relations. If that isn't plain enough, it also says same sex relations are "shameful acts".
I assume your OK that Jesus, under the 'new covenant' was OK with slavery, never talking against it and in fact using it in his parable on how to beat slaves. You know, beat them harder if they knew they were doing wrong, and don't beat him quite as hard if they didn't know?
So you seem to think that homosexuality is viewed negatively in the New Testament, so do you feel the same way that it's OK to talk about how to beat your slaves to make a point?
We also know that Paul talked about how slaves should be treated, but never talked about the fact that slavery should not exist.
Sexual "sins" existed only for the sake of growing the tribes of Israel. They were turned into "moral" sins to make them stick in the minds of Israelite tribesman but hold very little significance in the modern world.
Lots of baseless assertions here, but as Nozz would say, you create the narrative to fit your anti-God mold. Now here's an interesting observation from history. Whenever Israel rebelled against God, they fell to their enemies. Are you going to tell me that the Bible "fiction writers" just imagined the Babylonian captivity? Sadly, that wouldn't surprise me either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Homosexuality was an unwanted trait because couplings of this type did not produce offspring. Just like the Nazis who said Germany could not rest until the number of births outstripped the number of coffins, the authoritarian authors of the Bible did not want even one man to go to waste. Every man was to get married and impregnate his wife to expand and populate the tribes. The order to "be fruitful and multiply" didn't help much, either.
I'm fairly certain that an omniscient God would have realized that the earth would eventually become overpopulated, but then again, the authors of the Bible themselves were not omniscient.
an omniscient God (and at least you capitalized God, giving Him the respect He is due) would know when men reaches the point of destroying His creation and would set a timeline for putting an end to this existence. We are approaching that point with more wacko world leaders having a nuclear weapon in their toy box, and overpopulation outstripping natural resources. I really see no way on our current path for future generations to have a positive future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
It's unfortunate, however, that some of these ridiculous ancient laws are still followed by certain benighted individuals ... but worse still are those like you, Jeff, who seem to think that your ancient religious laws should apply to everyone regardless of their own personal beliefs, faiths, worldviews, moral compass, and sense of fairness.
Your beliefs, your interpretation of the Bible, your moral code, your religion, and your God are superior to those of everyone else and, therefore, should supplant and replace the beliefs and the morality of everyone else. Don't believe there is anything wrong with same-sex marriage? TOUGH! Jeff and his religion knows best and you WILL obey.
It's unfortunate that you need to resort to such tactics like referring to the Bible as "ancient laws". This automatically conquers up the image of someone blowing dust off some dusty outdated book. No, we have progressed well beyond that! Have we really? Do you really think our standard of extreme politically correctness has led to a more pleasant neighborly society? Our moral code has traditionally been ripped off the pages of the Bible. It is the reason America gives and gives with no expectation of return. It is the reason why we believe that all men are equal and no one should get favorites with the government. For the vast majority of our country's history, the vast majority of the population DID NOT believe like you. But you want a society that believes like you. You have no problem with homosexuality so you think no one should have problem with it. You want a society that makes up its moral code as we go laying down the track while the train is still running. And since you brought up Nazis, Germany did the same thing and before the people knew it, they were living in a completely immoral intolerant society where fear suppressed any voice of opposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Ah, what a loaded question. Of course the lot of us want to see Duggar brought to justice. Not just so he is punished but also to ensure no other children are hurt by his selfish, perverse actions. Yet if we express this desire to see him tried for his crimes and hopefully found guilty and locked up, you will insist despite our protests that revenge is all that we seek.
Even the legal system doesn't agree with you. We don't imprison people for crimes that they committed as children a decade ago. Futhermore, you don't have a single shred of evidence to support your position that Josh Duggar never changed and is a threat to children. If he was, I would support without hesitation his imprisonment for life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
The reason why you've caught a whirlwind of crap, Jeff, is because you aren't here on this forum defending every other garden variety pedophile. Just this one. In addition, there have been celebrity pedophiles before from Michael Jackson to Bill Cosby and again you have not jumped onto this forum to defend those men and accuse us of merely wanting revenge.
No ... the only difference between Josh Duggar and all the rest of the kiddie fiddlers is that he is a professed fundamentalist Christian. To my eyes, at least, your need to defend one of your own was so overpowering that you failed to keep your wits about you, and that has landed you on the freshly oiled skillet just waiting to cook you for losing sight of what is important.
I could throw the same argument at you. Children are abused everyday. Yet they remain nameless and forgotten in the media. Why aren't their stories front page news? Why are you not equally going after people who are doing it CURRENTLY with the same relentless bashing and venom that was launched at the Duggars? Oh wait, it's only because the Duggars are Christians so they should receive more attention and criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
On that front, you failed and failed immensely and now you're going to eat some crow for awhile. Man up and deal with it.
By the way, I've heard that crow goes good with a nice Chardonnay.
Given that your side acts like I am always a failure with every comment I make, I can easily brush off your lame attempt to embarrass me here.
I assume your OK that Jesus, under the 'new covenant' was OK with slavery, never talking against it and in fact using it in his parable on how to beat slaves. You know, beat them harder if they knew they were doing wrong, and don't beat him quite as hard if they didn't know?
Oh I see, so if a high school English teacher reads a story to her class about slavery then that automatically means she supports slavery. Got it.
Jesus came with a specific purpose. Pay the sin penalty and show us the spiritual way to live. He didn't come to create a physical rebellion and abolish things like slavery. What good with that have done anyways? A temporary fix for an ongoing problem as long as sinful man is at the helm. Our eternal salvation is much more important than briefly creating a better temporary physical society. The Bible tells us how to make the best of the situation that we are in, but makes it clear that all men are equal.
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Galatians 3:28
And yet in 2015, we still feel the need to label and group people. Some progress.
But Josh Duggar only gets a pass if he truly repented. Christians are called to forgive regardless of the sin. That separates us from the world who picks and chooses what sins should never been forgiven and wants revenge. Is that what is in your heart? A desire to see Josh Duggar suffer out of revenge?[/quote]
Sinning and committing a crime are two different things. I don't believe in revenge. I believe in justice. The victims never received their day in court. Duggar, with the help of his parents, avoided criminal prosecution for his crimes.
It's not up to me to forgive Duggar. Forgiveness is up to his victims. Two have spoken out to say they forgive him. One may be taking him to court. He may learn about the civil justice system in this country. If Duggar suffers it's because he made the choice to molest young girls.
Civil law vs. Criminal law is another thing you will learn about if you enroll in a civics/American government course. Religion and the law are two different things.
The belief that homosexuality is the WORST sin is appalling. It's religious extremism and prejudice at it's most ugly. Religious extremism leads to hate and discrimination. Those who promote it are finding out people stand with the LGBT community because we're tired of watching extremists deny our gay, lesbian, bi and trans brothers and sisters their rights. #Equality
NO
H8
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-06-2015 at 09:37 AM..
Funny how people just ignore the concept of the Old Convent and New Convent. I tell ya what, go ahead and ignore the OT laws about homosexuality. The NT is quite plain enough for me on the topic:
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:27
See that word "natural"? That means it is unnatural to have same sex relations. If that isn't plain enough, it also says same sex relations are "shameful acts".
Those are the words of PAUL, not GOD and certainly NOT CHRIST..
Funny how people just ignore the concept of the Old Convent and New Convent. I tell ya what, go ahead and ignore the OT laws about homosexuality. The NT is quite plain enough for me on the topic:
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:27
See that word "natural"? That means it is unnatural to have same sex relations. If that isn't plain enough, it also says same sex relations are "shameful acts".
I'm not going to stop you from living your life based on a belief system overwrought by ancient superstitions, just don't force me to believe.
Do you actually think that what is normal/natural for you, is normal/natural for every individual? If that is your belief, you have a very myopic view of the world. Why would you attempt to shame two same sex people when their basic desires are love and equality?
Our moral code has traditionally been ripped off the pages of the Bible.
Or is it that the Bible ripped off basic human moral codes and just attempted to codify them in the text. Your claim here is that our morality is coming from the Bible, rather than the morality of the Bible coming from us. I would enjoy seeing your attempt to substantiate this claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You have no problem with homosexuality so you think no one should have problem with it.
No, we have no problem with it because no one has given any reasons to have a problem with it, and if there are no reasons then we simply do not see why you have a problem with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You want a society that makes up its moral code as we go laying down the track while the train is still running.
I want a society that recognizes that morality contextual and ever evolving, and not set in stone unchangeable and unresponsive. I want it to grow as we grow, learn as we learn, in an iterative on going process with feedback mechanisms.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Oh I see, so if a high school English teacher reads a story to her class about slavery then that automatically means she supports slavery. Got it.
Jesus came with a specific purpose. Pay the sin penalty and show us the spiritual way to live. He didn't come to create a physical rebellion and abolish things like slavery. What good with that have done anyways? A temporary fix for an ongoing problem as long as sinful man is at the helm. Our eternal salvation is much more important than briefly creating a better temporary physical society. The Bible tells us how to make the best of the situation that we are in, but makes it clear that all men are equal.
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Galatians 3:28
And yet in 2015, we still feel the need to label and group people. Some progress.
Oh, but it didn't just stop with where Jesus chooses to not condemn slavery but to use it in a parable and describing how slaves should be beaten. Let's explore a little bit more of the so-called New Covenant and how it is described in the New Testament.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
So slaves need to obey their masters? Obviously, this is promoting slavery not preaching against slavery.
Let's go on. It actually gets worse, because now it says that Christians are okay to have slaves.
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
And just in case you don't remember what Jesus actually said about how to beat slaves here's the reminder.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
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Funny how all the other rules of Lev. no longer apply to modern day people. 
