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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
I know where you're going. The same place you're always going. You are a non-believer who likes to poke the bears.
And there is a problem dealing with facts rather than myths and fables based on faith only?
Once religions stop causing so much pain and suffering in the world, people like myself will quit pointing out they're horrible teachings that are enshrined in their so called holy books.
Unless one doesn't really care about the pain and suffering that religions cause, pointing out these situations should not be a problem, should be?
A servant? Slavery? Ah, that is so silly. What a desperate attempt. A servant could very well be no more than an employee today. It was meant to honor Sabbeth. You know, or maybe you don't, God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested. It was a good plan.
This is just more crap trying to destroy God-based faith so that those that want to openly sin can do so with a clearer conscious.
of course there are 10 commandments;
to say otherwise is a deliberate deception
and you yourself are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing: "deliberate misrepresentation" of the original Jewish teaching; and it is also a deliberate misrepresentation of the Christian teaching
Your post is also a clear example of taqqiyah "to deliberately lie to non-Muslims" thank you for illustrating it for us yourself
when someone is deceptive they lose all credibility and respect and their agenda is not only suspect, but utterly transparent. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d'varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.
Quote:
Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"
Aseret ha-Dibrot (in Hebrew)
Level: Intermediate
• There are 613 commandments, not 10
• The "Ten Commandments" are categories
• The 10 are divided into duties to G-d and duties to people
• Different religions divide the 10 in different ways
According to Jewish tradition, G-d gave the Jewish people 613 mitzvot (commandments). All 613 of those mitzvot are equally sacred, equally binding and equally the word of G-d. All of these mitzvot are treated as equally important, because human beings, with our limited understanding of the universe, have no way of knowing which mitzvot are more important in the eyes of the Creator. Pirkei Avot, a book of the Mishnah, teaches "Be as meticulous in performing a 'minor' mitzvah as you are with a 'major' one, because you don't know what kind of reward you'll get for various mitzvot." It also says, "Run after the most 'minor' mitzvah as you would after the most 'important' and flee from transgression, because doing one mitzvah draws you into doing another, and doing one transgression draws you into doing another, and because the reward for a mitzvah is a mitzvah and the punishment for a transgression is a transgression." In other words, every mitzvah is important, because even the most seemingly trivial mitzvot draw you into a pattern of leading your life in accordance with the Creator's wishes, rather than in accordance with your own.
Two Tablets But what about the so-called "Ten Commandments," the words recorded in Exodus 20, the words that the Creator Himself wrote on the two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai (Ex. 31:18), which Moses smashed upon seeing the idolatry of the golden calf (Ex. 32:19)? In the Torah, these words are never referred to as the Ten Commandments. In the Torah, they are called Aseret ha-D'varim (Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4). In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d'varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.
Multiple English translations of the Quran would disagree with what you said above.
Quote:
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, though they should not feel that way..
Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.
Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.
Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Yes, I'm aware that the source is anti Muslim, so I asked you not to denigrate the source, however the links inside it. It does give multiple translations in the source of those translations which all point in the same direction.
while there are circumstances that a lie will not carry a serious punishment, that does not mean they are permitted or encourged.
If need be I will discuss each of them but the answer will be similar for all. Looking just at the first Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
16:106 (Asad) As for anyone who denies God after having once attained to faith-and this, to be sure, does not apply to one who does it under duress, the while his heart remains true to his faith, but [only, to] him who willingly opens up his heart to a denial of the truth-: upon all such [falls] God's condemnation, and tremendous suffering awaits them:
16:106 (Y. Ali) Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.
16:106 (Picktall) Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with Faith but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom
This is not permission to lie. One should resist even when under threat of death. However if a person resists to the best of their ability and "Breaks" he will not be punished for it.
In other words we will not be punished for failing if we have tried to the best of our ability.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
A servant? Slavery? Ah, that is so silly. What a desperate attempt. A servant could very well be no more than an employee today. It was meant to honor Sabbeth. You know, or maybe you don't, God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested. It was a good plan.
This is just more crap trying to destroy God-based faith so that those that want to openly sin can do so with a clearer conscious.
Time to get to know your bible.
Explain:
Leviticus 25:44-46 for starters.
There are a lot of more passages that support slavery however I get to send you need to take them one at a time.
A servant? Slavery? Ah, that is so silly. What a desperate attempt. A servant could very well be no more than an employee today. It was meant to honor Sabbeth. You know, or maybe you don't, God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested. It was a good plan.
This is just more crap trying to destroy God-based faith so that those that want to openly sin can do so with a clearer conscious.
In fact, this would very well be the point.
The ten commandments were not "laws of slavery" nor were they "10 categories of 612 commandments." We don't need Leviticus and Deuteronomy. We need 10 (and only 10) rules for living.
Let's talk about the Sabbath, and about Jews misunderstanding it themselves.
The Jews made a number of commandments for what work you couldn't do on the Sabbath. But that was never the point. The point was that you have an offday. There were probably rules about honoring your father and mother too, but this isn't it either. The commandment is that you have parents to take care of you, so don't turn your back on them. Don't ruin your life by lying and cheating and stealing, and you don't want to have to live with killing someone.
These weren't rules to make subjects of people. These were simple rules to make you free. Rules such that you had a guideline when other people tried to give you rules. "I'm gonna need you to work on Sunday." Nope, sorry, the Sabbath is important to me (nvm that for Jews, Sabbath is Saturday), so you can go ****** yourself. "I want you to lie under oath, or I'll hurt your family." Nope, sorry, you're going to jail where you can't hurt them, and I'll also talk about being threatened.
Laws to set us free from ourselves and others. Sure, I know people are fans abolishing the Ten Commandments and living in "freedom" but once you realize what these commandments actually are, I would hope you change your mind. People think they'd be happier living in sin, but this only because with the rise of fundamentalism and hellfire & brimstone, people equated godliness with repression. Actually, this sort of Christianity was exactly why Jesus wept. Sin is the chain, Jesus is the freedom.
And there is a problem dealing with facts rather than myths and fables based on faith only?
Once religions stop causing so much pain and suffering in the world, people like myself will quit pointing out they're horrible teachings that are enshrined in their so called holy books.
Unless one doesn't really care about the pain and suffering that religions cause, pointing out these situations should not be a problem, should be?
So, where exactly today are Christian or Jewish adherents persecuting or otherwise enslaving people using supposed justification from the Bible?
In the 20th century, the most obvious representation of political anti-religion was atheistic Communism. It killed approximately 100 million people and ran the largest slave labor camps in recent historical memory.
I'd be justified in suggesting that the priority of your political targets is reversed if you are concerned about pain, suffering, and slavery in the world.
Not support...Tells you the rules IF you own a slave...
Would that not imply approval? Certainly at least toleration. Why would there be rules for a prohibited institution? Here are the rules IF you commit adultery? Here are the rules IF you steal?
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