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Misses what point? The OP wasn't making a point, that I was aware.
And, yes Tzap you've understood my intent perfectly. As an agnostic, I feel that the definition of God that I use for my personal reflection is perfectly apropos. I ask myself ... what is God to me?
The point of the word "God" is what is missing. All you have done is define your priorities. Which is of course not a bad thing, introspection is a fantastic tool for anyone, agnostic, gnostic, theist, or atheist.
But why label them "God"? The only reason to do so is to take advantage of some shade of meaning, some association that the word "God" has, that "priorities" or "values" do not. It is those shades of meaning that make the word choice interesting, and this is what I think was at the heart of the original question. Why that word?
When I was a recent deconvert, struggling to admit that I was in fact an atheist, I tried to retain "God" in some metaphoric sense, some way that I could still talk about God, participate in religious life while not being fake or phoney. I think this for some is why they attach the word to concepts that have perfectly good words otherwise. It was a way to try to still be able to "speak the same language" as my family and friends while meaning something different, to avoid having to deal with the issue.
It seems like there may be other reasons that people continue to retain religious language, attached to what appear to be otherwise understandable ideas. For me this is the interesting bit. I would be fascinated to understand what it is that keeps you attached to the word "God"... I eventually couldn't hang on to it, I just had to sort of "come clean" with myself and come to terms with my own unbelief, but I know others have very different experiences...
The word God carries a lot of baggage for many people and is used frequently on this forum. I have no interest in having a scholarly discussion on this topic but would like to know how the various members of this forum define the word "God". I will start I use that word as a metaphor for the universe.
Awesome and wonderful
Divine Love on steriods!
Unconditional Loving and Lovable
Happy, Gentle and Sweet
Brilliant and Creative
Humble, Caring and Kind
Compassionate and Understanding
Extremely Patient
The word" God " to me?
He whom is the supreme creator, worthy of all respect and obedience to.
Jesus Christ, is God the Father's physical representation to man, through out our existence.
He made every thing, and by His own direct word, holds all things together.
God the Holy Spirit, Jesus designated to teach in His place, is my teacher, in the Father's will.
It seems like there may be other reasons that people continue to retain religious language, attached to what appear to be otherwise understandable ideas. For me this is the interesting bit. I would be fascinated to understand what it is that keeps you attached to the word "God"... I eventually couldn't hang on to it, I just had to sort of "come clean" with myself and come to terms with my own unbelief, but I know others have very different experiences...
-NoCapo
For me it is obvious. I am certain that the Source of everything that exists is a consciousness. A conscious reality cannot be anything else BUT a God given its scope, ubiquity and power.
I am certain that the Source of everything that exists is a consciousness. A conscious reality cannot be anything else BUT a God given its scope, ubiquity and power.
So you believe that when a person chooses to place the pursuit of wealth at the forefront of their life, they are literally creating a divine being that is objectively real?
...If god for atheists is what they "worship with their time and attention", then I would argue it is the same for everyone... In which case I would have to say that for most of us, including theists, it would have to be sleep.
If your family, your friends, your work, your integrity are important to you only because of the command of some transcendent being, I pity you and your family. That is no way to live. On the other hand by your original definition which you are trying to foist on us, if you value your wife for who she is, if loving your children is a critical part of your life simply because they are your children, then they would also be gods, and you know what the commandments say about that...
...what is your definition of God? What is required for something to be a god, a literal one?
the pursuit of wealth becomes a person's god if that is what they put above all else, and yes that is true whether a person is an atheist or not
sleep is only, say, 8 hours a day, so it is how a person decides how they spend the other 16 hours each day that is more deliberate, where a person puts their most fervent time and attention that elects their god.
how do you answer: "what is the purpose of life for me? what is the meaning of life for me? what do i put above all else in importance, time, attention, and value?" what's driving the bus?
that's your god
in the example above it sounds like devotion to family is most important, and else flows from there. for a theist it could be devotion to god is most important, and all else flows from there. what's at the top of the heap for you?
for some making boatloads of money is most important, and all else flows from there. for the person who places honesty in business above everything else, they choose a different path.
for me? God creates, sustains, and permeates all of existence and everything in it across time and space. God is both within us (immanent) and all around us (transcendent). All knowing, all powerful, all loving, ever present, as near to me as my own hands and feet, and exquisitely concerned with and involved in every detail of my life and well being.
For me it is obvious. I am certain that the Source of everything that exists is a consciousness. A conscious reality cannot be anything else BUT a God given its scope, ubiquity and power.
Sure, but your version of God only differs from the combined definition that Nozz, Arq, and I put together by very small bits. Your concept of God is a transcendent (the EN in pan-EN-theist), personal being with a mind and will, who has desires, and who is working within reality to conform it to His desires (albeit your version tends to do so spiritually, not physically). Sure there are minor quibbles about God encompassing reality vs being apart from it, the method of God's will being manifest ( an example of agape love vs substitutionary atonement), and the like, but your version is not far removed from a lot of historical examples of God-concepts within Christianity over the last 2000 years, even though many of the fundies don't want to admit it...
Your version, I may disagree with, but it makes sense. I understand why and how you use the word. Others are sometimes a bit of a mystery to me. I don't mean to sound condescending, I just truly don't understand why and how they use the word in the ways they do...
-NoCapo
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