Police Chief Tells Atheist Bullies - "Go Fly a Kite"! LOL (priest, Commandments)

[emm74]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Technically, the 1st Amendment says nothing about teacher-led prayer in school, except that Congress has no right to limit it. But don't let facts get in the way!

The First Amendment also says that government cannot establish a state religion. And as the poster stated, the Supreme Court has interpreted that to include saying that the government-run institution of a public school cannot breach the Establishment Clause with teacher-led prayer.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way!

[southernbored]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Are you really standing behind that statement? Because you are agreeing with her that I have NEVER not even once ever said anything true. That's a claim that can be easily shot down.

I don't think Shirina (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong Shirina) meant that you had literally never said anything true in your life. It is kind of like saying "I am going to KILL him!" I am not going to literally kill someone. Or "This guy lies about everything". The guy obviously doesn't lie about everything. You guys are big on context, so maybe you should apply that here.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

I'm suggesting that groups like FFRF are constantly putting up borders to the point where eventually we can only be a Christian in our minds.

Then it is a nonsensical suggestion based on a flawed slippery slope concern.

There is no basis in this country to forbid people to hold whatever belief and practice they want within the private sphere, nor do I entertain any fantasy or desire that such could be done. Maybe somewhere there is some unbeliever so fragile and dysfunctional that they feel simply having to pass a church or have someone offhandedly say "bless you" when they sneeze, that such things are a threat vector that they should never encounter. Such that they might go to the FFRF or the ACLU and ask for Something To Be Done. And they will be turned down because there is nothing to be done and that is not the charter of either of those organizations. And if that unbeliever were to start their own organization or movement that would try to exert some sort of fascist control over the lives of unbelievers, something will happen that has surprised believers in the past: the ACLU will defend to the death the right of believers to believe when it is actually threatened.

It is not even strictly a question of believers vs unbelievers. It is also a question of how structural realities such as school officials leading students in prayer, is disrespectful of and marginalizing of people with other religious beliefs.

Rather than engage with these legitimate concerns that have concrete actual effects on actual people, you would rather advance a specifically anti-Christian conspiracy theory rather than make sure that your Christian majority does not, wittingly or otherwise, effectively advance an anti-non-Christian agenda based on majority privilege.

[southernbored]

Originally Posted by mordant

Then it is a nonsensical suggestion based on a flawed slippery slope concern.

There is no basis in this country to forbid people to hold whatever belief and practice they want within the private sphere, nor do I entertain any fantasy or desire that such could be done. Maybe somewhere there is some unbeliever so fragile and dysfunctional that they feel simply having to pass a church or have someone offhandedly say "bless you" when they sneeze, that such things are a threat vector that they should never encounter. Such that they might go to the FFRF or the ACLU and ask for Something To Be Done. And they will be turned down because there is nothing to be done and that is not the charter of either of those organizations. And if that unbeliever were to start their own organization or movement that would try to exert some sort of fascist control over the lives of unbelievers, something will happen that has surprised believers in the past: the ACLU will defend to the death the right of believers to believe when it is actually threatened.

It is not even strictly a question of believers vs unbelievers. It is also a question of how structural realities such as school officials leading students in prayer, is disrespectful of and marginalizing of people with other religious beliefs.

Rather than engage with these legitimate concerns that have concrete actual effects on actual people, you would rather advance a specifically anti-Christian conspiracy theory rather than make sure that your Christian majority does not, wittingly or otherwise, effectively advance an anti-non-Christian agenda based on majority privilege.

Jeff will never understand this. For him, only his religion matters, so if someone else is offended or marginalized, it doesn't matter. He has made that clear. For instance, in the thread about the guy being fired for being Christian (which was a joke) he said it wasn't fair for Muslims to get prayer time, while at the same time advocating for this dude to have time to preach and pray to people. Hypocrite.

Jeff and others like him want to make it believers vs unbelievers, because then they have someone to blame for all of their issues. They can cry persecution and take no responsibility.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Their motive is clear. Take separation of church and state to such ridiculous extremes that it becomes illegal for a person to be a Christian in this country.

I'm really starting to believe that you're paranoid, Jeff. Seriously.

Yet here I am, trying to be calm about this, because I can't stop thinking about those polls identifying atheists as the least trusted and most hated group in America. I can't stop thinking about the flagrant lies, slander, and misinformation television preachers and movie producers use to paint atheists as these baby-eating psychopaths with absolutely no concept of morality, psychopaths who spend every waking second plotting and scheming to create some kind of holocaust against Christians.

I mean, talk about projecting. We atheists are the ones who get bullied -- and the fact that you're always wailing about Christian persecution proves it. Do you want to know why? Well, it doesn't matter because I'm going to tell you anyway. It's because almost everything you whine about is about concerns how Christians were prevented from bullying non-Christians. *snicker* The things your ilk are prevented from doing spells out in clearly-defined letters precisely what YOU want for this country.

Thus here you are boo-hooing because atheist "bullies" (why not just call them "scum" like you did in the other thread?) not wanting a religious slogan on government-owned police cars while I'm in another thread writing about something far less important -- like how conservative Christianity is preventing women from being protected against spousal rape. Hmm, let's see. Rape ... or police car slogans? I wonder which is more important ...

But do you know what's positively asinine about your responses to this thread? I'm going to write the answer to that question in bold just to emphasize just how monumentally idiotic this is:

You're sitting here on this thread bloviating about Christian persecution even though the Christians won this disagreement and the police cars get to keep their religious slogans!

Talk about being a poor winner. It just goes to show you that atheists aren't even allowed to voice a dissenting opinion about ANYTHING involving Christianity because, even if Christians win, it still means all of Christendom (all 2.5 billion of you) will be forced into being a Christian "only in their minds."

At this point, you're not even thinking rationally about this issue.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

The Establishment clause means that the school can not declare Christianity as the official religion of the school and pressure students to follow it.

No, Jeff, that is NOT what it means. At least, that's not ONLY what it means. If you took your nose out of the Bible now and again and read some case law, you wouldn't be talking about things for which you have no understanding.

The courts have ruled time and time again that "establishing" a religion also includes supporting, promoting, and proselytizing a religion as well. Thus the government and any of its government-controlled subsidiaries such as *ahem* local police departments cannot run around pushing religion or being an agency for religious advertising. Which means the police cannot drive around in cars implying that either the local, state, or federal government is in any way religious in nature.

I'm sure your fascistic fundamentalist handlers will tell you that the government can be as religious as it wants just as long as it doesn't officially decree a "state religion," but that's a pile of steaming, stinky-ass male cow excrement.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

It doesn't mean that atheists have the right to be completely free of any public display of faith and that's all we have here.

I have to congratulate you, though. Even as I write this, I'm on the phone with some of the most preeminent scientists of our age. I'm telling them that you are living proof that parallel universes really do exist ... because you sure as hell aren't living in the same universe as the rest of us.

There are public displays of Christianity just about everywhere we look. There are churches everywhere and the signs they put out, there are billboards, there are homemade signs stuck in the ground ... and every time I go to my pain manager, I have to drive by an irritating sign that says, "God will not waste your pain."

There are crosses all over the place, I've seen Bible verses scrawled on wooden boards and nailed to telephone poles at major intersections. On I-80 and I-79, I'm always seeing those 50' tall crosses representing Jesus's cross and the two thieves crucified with him. I see ads for churches, I see ads for church functions. I can't even look at a Redbox list of movies without being inundated with Christian propaganda movies.

Just how many of those displays are atheists demanding to be taken down? Hmm?

No ... atheists only care if the GOVERNMENT is cheerleading for religion, not whether some church with more money than sense wants to rent a billboard.

Oh but wait ... just when you thought I was going to move on, there's something else about this stupidity that needs addressing.

Isn't it just a wee bit strange that when any atheist group so much as erects just a single sign, it makes the news? Of course, the sign is usually vandalized rather quickly thereafter -- because the fascists in this country wish to deny atheists the right to a voice and take proactive steps to ensure that we are silenced as much as they can:



So I am fed up to twice my height with people like you bellyaching about "oh boohoo, Christians will soon be prevented from having any public displays of Christianity. Oh woe is me. If only I lived in the same universe where Shirina lived because there it is atheists who are constantly being silenced by Christians even to the point of having every sign they erect vandalized!"

For the life of me I really don't know what you're seeing out there when you leave your house. It certainly isn't the same world I see.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

The principal was INVITED to come pray with the students and a single person found that display of faith offensively so the entire community gets punished. That is simply wrong.

Whoopsy-daisy ... wrong thread, Jeff. This is about how we snarling, baby-eating, salivating, Satan-worshiping atheists didn't like having the local government proselytizing on the sides of their police cars. If you want the thread where we snarling, baby-eating, salivating, Satan-worshiping atheists are using a completely innocent principal and how the entire community is going to be punished with 60 lashes each before being burned at the stake unless they admit that atheists dominate this country, you'll have to go back to that particular thread. But you better clear it with the FFRF because they do have stringent rules about where Christians are allowed to talk and what messages they're allowed to present.

We wouldn't want to see you get jammed up over breaking all those laws that atheists have passed given that we atheists have a POTUS, a VPOTUS, and 297 congressional seats in both parties. Right? I mean that IS how your world works ... no?

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

I'm suggesting that groups like FFRF are constantly putting up borders to the point where eventually we can only be a Christian in our minds.

You can "suggest" it all you want despite the fact that it's all rubbish. The 1st Amendment even protects hyperbole, exaggeration, delusions, and outright lies (unless you're under oath in a courtroom). We atheists tend to know a little something about the Constitution given that people like you are wont to ignore it when there's an opportunity to push your religion a little closer to Capitol Hill or, even better, the Oval Office.

It is your camp, after all, not ours, who have representatives saying such fascistic lines of utter crap like, "The Supreme Court is not the Supreme Being."

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Technically, the 1st Amendment says nothing about teacher-led prayer in school, except that Congress has no right to limit it. But don't let facts get in the way!

You don't even understand what the 1st Amendment says, what the courts say about it, what the Supremacy Clause does, and why it doesn't have to be "Congress" initiating the law for said law to violate the 1st Amendment.

In fact, you're practically re-writing the Constitution in order to make your defense work. Except it doesn't work and I'm reasonably certain you have no authority to change anything in the Constitution on your own.

Get back to me when you have a firmer grasp of how our government works. Thanks in advance!

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Are you really standing behind that statement? Because you are agreeing with her that I have NEVER not even once ever said anything true. That's a claim that can be easily shot down.

LOL! Okay that was my mistake. I forgot that, as someone whose arguments are a string of nonstop hyperbolic statements that you actually take as truth, you would recognize a hyperbolic statement that I wrote as a figure of speech -- only you took it as literally as you take your own hyperbolic regurgitation.

My bad.

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by emm74

The First Amendment also says that government cannot establish a state religion. And as the poster stated, the Supreme Court has interpreted that to include saying that the government-run institution of a public school cannot breach the Establishment Clause with teacher-led prayer.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way!

A law that has to be interpreted can always be interpreted again by different people.

[southernbored]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

A law that has to be interpreted can always be interpreted again by different people.

Well, until someone who matters interprets it in a different way, you will just have to deal with it.

[jeffbase40]

Originally Posted by southernbored

Well, until someone who matters interprets it in a different way, you will just have to deal with it.

Then stop acting like it's written in unchangeable permanent stone and the gospel truth. That's why laws like this should be debated.