Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
First, is belief linked to social and emotional cognition in general, or a specific dimension in particular? Second, does the negative relationship between belief and analytic thinking still hold after relationships with social and emotional cognition are taken into account?
* * *
We find that religious belief is robustly positively associated with moral concern (4 measures), and that at least part of the negative association between belief and analytic thinking (2 measures) can be explained by a negative correlation between moral concern and analytic thinking. Using nine different measures of mentalizing, we found no evidence of a relationship between mentalizing and religious or spiritual belief. These findings challenge the theoretical view that religious and spiritual beliefs are linked to the perception of agency, and suggest that gender differences in religious belief can be explained by differences in moral concern. These findings are consistent with the opposing domains hypothesis, according to which brain areas associated with moral concern and analytic thinking are in tension.
I've just started to read the article; it's on a topic of great interest to me-- why some of us are believers and some are not.
These results reported here present a challenge to a number of theoretical accounts of religious belief, especially those which emphasize a link between religious and spiritual beliefs and the perception of agency. The present findings put religious and spiritual beliefs in a new light by suggesting that they are not so much linked to the perception of agency as they are broadly to moral concern, and in particular empathic concern. In line with this view, a number of theologians and religious scholars have claimed that compassion is a central theme that unites many religions. While further work is needed to establish causal links, it is plausible both that religious thinking increases moral concern, and that individuals who possess greater levels of moral concern are more inclined to identify with religious and spiritual worldviews.
I think both theories of religious belief have validity. I tend to lean more towards agency inference, but that is less true of liberal / agnostic theists. I tend to lean towards agency because I came out of fundamentalist Christianity and am most familiar with that thinking. When you literally believe in an interventionist god then it's important to see agency. When you hold your god beliefs more loosely then you can be more focused on compassion.
Future refinements of these studies should explore agency and "moral concern" as more complimentary rather than competing theories, that can coexist and vary independently.
Very interesting and robust study. Not to take away from it's commendable work:
The study (most likely due to bias) fails to explain in the abstract that the societies studied were both Religious and Emotional, thus religious and emotional people would do better in tests of the "wellness" of the social and emotional understanding. And that both concepts are highly illogical and thus evade objective analysis as they are more instinctual rather than perfectly rational.
Quote:
Study 1 suggests that the relationship between analytic thinking and disbelief may be at least partially accounted for by the observed negative correlations between analytic thinking and moral concern, and the positive relationship between empathic concern and belief in God or a universal spirit.
It doesn't "suggest" anything other than current correlation. And how "more intelligent people tend to disbelief Theism more" begins to even be "partially accounted for" by a finding that "more intelligent people tend to be less concerned with feelings" is unknown to me, other than to say that morality (as their "sample question" showed) is not about logic but merely about feeling, and that Theism is "feelings based, instead of intellect based."
Quote:
Again, study 2 suggests that measures of analytic thinking that negatively predict belief may do so only because they are negatively correlated with a measure of empathic concern, which is positively associated with belief.
I am not sure how or why they choose to "lean" to the non-sequitor thought that "intelligence is associated with disbelief not because it is intelligence but because intelligence isn't as concerned with emotion and feelings (called "empathy" in this study for some reason).
Quote:
Study 3 establishes that belief in God or a universal spirit is independently predicted by self-reports of empathic concern and the extent to which one feels concern for all of humanity (IWAH_Global).
Studies 1–3 all suggest religious and spiritual disbelief may no longer be predicted by analytic thinking after its negative relationship with measures of empathy are taken into account.
This is at least a fresher way of saying it, they are saying that if you remove/control for the emotional aspect of it, intelligence doesn't really significantly predict belief in Theism. So if you compare one intelligent person with another less intelligent one, they might both disbelief in Theism around the same levels if you pair up their emotional "moral/fellowship" concerns a bit more. It's just that emotional "moral/fellowship" people tend to be dumber and that is what makes it "ONLY SEEM" like Theist people tend to be dumber.
A perfectly reasonable alternative (that they didn't emphasize in those areas) would be Theist people are taught that Theist people are supposed to be more "moral/fellowship" thus allowing less intelligent people to hold tighter to such believes of themselves and each other (and being less intelligent they forget they weren't that "empathetic"), and that these believes are very ubiquitous and only scarcely challenged and thus don't require constant indoctrination. But let's see what Study 8 has to say about that.
Quote:
Study 8: These data serve to both replicate and extend the above studies by demonstrating that neither socially desirable responding, religious practice, nor social contact associated with religious affiliation explains the positive relationship between moral concern and belief.
What they mean by socially desirable responding is whether they report to doing good things and not doing bad things. Meaning that the Theists purport to "feel" more moral concern, without their belief that they "follow through" being related to how much moral concern they report to feel.
Regardless, my original assessment stands. Theists are indeed dumber than NonTheists by numbers, but I easily agree with this coagulation of 8 questionnaire studies that Theists are much more concerned with feelings/fellowship than NonTheists and that if this concern is "controlled for" then Intelligence isn't as associated with belief or disbelief in theism as purported by a few hundred individuals in an Amazon.com pool of people.
There are dumb and smart people everywhere, but I don't think that feelings/fellowship makes you dumber, like this study seems to "predict." Nor do I think that "Intelligence has not much to do with negating Theism although it seems to, as it has to do with neglecting Feelings/Fellowship ("Moral") concern which is what is related to Theism, and that is why there is a Statistic showing that Theists are less intelligent on average.
No intelligent person negates Theism because "theism is associated with certain feelings labeled as morality"... And no Theist is a Theist because "being more morally concerned as defined by this questionnaire" made them Theist.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 03-28-2016 at 02:40 AM..
"Atheists, the researchers found, are most closely aligned with psychopaths–not killers, but the vast majority of psychopaths classified as such due to their lack of empathy for others."
Wait...what? I didn't see anything else in the article about this--it was pretty random.
The article quoted in reddit got it from this part of the study in the O.P. -->
Quote:
These studies are guided by a theoretical model which focuses on the distinct social and emotional processing deficits associated with autism spectrum disorders (mentalizing) and psychopathy (moral concern).
And since "belief" (in vague theism) is associated with moral concern which "happens" to lower their intelligence capability (as defined by for questions the only one presented was about feelings that contradict the "theory of a just world" inclination), the reddit article author thought that atheists "align" with psychopaths.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 03-28-2016 at 03:20 AM..
Actually this is a poor study which based on unbelief , and view religion on some cognitive disorder ......Where I believe in God because He is indeed real and there is a daily witness of His presence on My Life by the spiritual gifts of Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ , which are not of the art of the scientific or psychology , but of the Spiritual art of Christ ........ See if there was not God I certainly would not waste my time with it , but I have found that His is there
Actually this is a poor study which based on unbelief , and view religion on some cognitive disorder ......Where I believe in God because He is indeed real and there is a daily witness of His presence on My Life by the spiritual gifts of Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ , which are not of the art of the scientific or psychology , but of the Spiritual art of Christ ........ See if there was not God I certainly would not waste my time with it , but I have found that His is there
I'm afraid you were mislead by the spirits that haunt you.
The study is DEFENDING belief in a God (or "universal spirit") by saying that studies that linked it by statistical analysis to essentially "being dumber" failed to control for "moral concern"... and that "moral concern" is more linked with "being dumber (less analytical capability)" than Theism is, and that Theists just happen to have more "moral concern" people in it and thus that is why it "only seemed" like Theism was associated with being dumber. So, at the end of the day, they think that "moral concern" (as currently measured by them) must be at odds with "analytical reasoning" and that being more "religious (communal prayer and meditation) but not religiously social (partying together)" makes people more morally concerned and thus better at social and emotional wellness. They also think that belief in God has nothing to do with being dumber nor with being able to analyze things properly, but they do think belief in God has to do with being more morally concerned and thus having better social and emotional intelligence.
If this study was "based on unbelief" than it was based on masochistic unbelief. But people do tend to have a tendency to be masochists, so who knows.
The article quoted in reddit got it from this part of the study in the O.P. -->
And since "belief" (in vague theism) is associated with moral concern which "happens" to lower their intelligence capability (as defined by for questions the only one presented was about feelings that contradict the "theory of a just world" inclination), the reddit article author thought that atheists "align" with psychopaths.
Atheists can be lined right up with psychopaths.
Yup, sounds about right to me.
If this board is any indication, anyway.
Atheists can be lined right up with psychopaths.
Yup, sounds about right to me.
If this board is any indication, anyway.
Exactly it seems the complete opposite. A psychopath would believe strongly in Cronyism and would want Hell to torture those who weren't crony and didn't "properly acknowledge/respect" their beliefs.
Exactly it seems the complete opposite. A psychopath would believe strongly in Cronyism and would want Hell to torture those who weren't crony and didn't "properly acknowledge/respect" their beliefs.
I don't see it that way.
I don't think a psychopath would be so satisfied in the here and now by the hope of "cronies" handling payback in some necrodestination torture setup.
A psychopath wants to dole out the retribution themselves...in real time.
I do see a lot of cronyism among those that criticize, mock, and insult the Theists here. They pile on...and high-five and give each other "reps" for bashing the view that differs from theirs.
Some even go so far as telling the Theists they should be classified as crazy, they should be cited for child-abuse for teaching their ideology to their children...even that they think the Theist should die.
Many put up a post tally that, considering it is about something they claim to not even exist, is outright obsessive and compulsive. They start hundreds of threads...99% are a full-on slam of Theism, every aspect.
If not "psychopathic"...it is fully obvious that many have "serious issues", at the very least.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
