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That's a good point and reminds me of the whole Duggar thing last year. The sisters that got molested had moved on. They even forgave their brother. They wanted to leave it in the past, but the disgusting media made it front headlines for weeks with zero concern for the victims. They had to relive the experience over and over in the press.
They invited the press into their lives. I absolutely agree that it was disgusting how the victims' privacy was invaded in such a public manner... but as stated on the old Duggar thread: the ONLY reason the media was able to get a hold of that old report was because the sneaky/sloppy manner the parents went about [finally] reporting it to the authorities.
Nevertheless, victims often relive the experience over and over, even the ones who go about their lives quietly, under the radar, thinking that it was all behind them... until it isn't anymore. Anything can trigger it: a smell, remembering the date it happened, seeing old pictures from when they were the age it happened. I started having flashbacks while giving birth.
Just a reminder to those who talk about the victim moving on, in the Western Legal system the crime is against the state/crown so it does not matter if the victim has moved on or wants the rapist boiled in oil. It is the government that tries the accused and decides innocent or guilt and the punishment if found guilty.
I realize this. Once a charge has been laid it has to be pursued to its eventual outcome. However, this is not what we're dealing with here. All of these things you speak of were done in accordance with the Western Legal System. The charge against the alleged offender was laid, he was found guilty of the charge and a prison term of ten years was given as a consequence for the offense. I don't see anyone arguing against this.
The very same legal system allows that an offender serve their time and then be released back into society. Again, this in accordance with the state. So, I'm somewhat puzzled as to why this thread was initiated in the first place (well, I kinda DO know!) or as to why people such as yourself (you come across as being intelligent) would allow themselves to become embroiled in this topic so personally when all legal measures have been complied with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
I would guess that all of us hopes that he does not reoffend but if he is put into a position that allows him access to under aged girls and he does reoffend are you fine with this and again question the girl more than Hopper.
You're clearly mocking. This might impress others of the wolf-pack but it doesn't impress me. Please don't do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Yes the media would be less disgusting if they simply showed or told about the mean things that atheists said or did and leave the good Christians alone.
What media? For the purpose of being able to participate in this discussion with all of the facts under my belt I've looked onsite for some thorough documentation on this case but all I find is the same old tabloid crap about the poorly chosen words of a pastor who they have tagged as being "pro-rape".
Maybe you're not as intelligent as I previously gave you credit for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Romulus the girl was a member of the church when she was raped but perhaps not a good member if you doubt that the rape occurred.
I realize this. Once a charge has been laid it has to be pursued to its eventual outcome. However, this is not what we're dealing with here. All of these things you speak of were done in accordance with the Western Legal System. The charge against the alleged offender was laid, he was found guilty of the charge and a prison term of ten years was given as a consequence for the offense. I don't see anyone arguing against this.
The very same legal system allows that an offender serve their time and then be released back into society. Again, this in accordance with the state. So, I'm somewhat puzzled as to why this thread was initiated in the first place (well, I kinda DO know!) or as to why people such as yourself (you come across as being intelligent) would allow themselves to become embroiled in this topic so personally when all legal measures have been complied with.
You're clearly mocking. This might impress others of the wolf-pack but it doesn't impress me. Please don't do that.
What media? For the purpose of being able to participate in this discussion with all of the facts under my belt I've looked onsite for some thorough documentation on this case but all I find is the same old tabloid crap about the poorly chosen words of a pastor who they have tagged as being "pro-rape".
Maybe you're not as intelligent as I previously gave you credit for.
Again, you're mocking. Not good, badlander.
No further response.
Where I was being sincere you called me mocking.
If you actually read what I wrote you would not be asking me the questions you did.
If you actually read what I wrote you would not be asking me the questions you did.
I don't take at face value everything I read in the papers or see on the TV news as being 'the gospel truth' as most of our media-manipulated society does. The only things that "I" know as being the 'gospel truth' are the things that I'm actually a witness to. I question pretty well everything and this seems to work for me, even if I might get ripped apart on a forum for doing so. I really can't let that bother me even though, I confess, it does bother me at times. If I read that a 13 year-old girl was raped at knife-point I automatically wonder, 'Hmmm ...how did this all come about?/did this guy force himself on the girl or was the sex part consensual at first anyway?/did he even know that she was only 13?/was the knife-at-the-throat some game they were both playing?/was it the girl who later cried rape or was it the girl's parents after they found out?/did the girl invent the knife story to get herself off the hook for participating in the sex act'? Those kinds of things. Would it still have been rape? Perhaps. That was the charge. Hopper was found guilty. He served ten years in prison. Other than this I don't know any more than what I've read on the cheap sensationalist tabloids.
Because I question these things I AM certainly mocked by those who automatically take the view that I'm somehow complicit in the rape act itself. It's ridiculous. Actually, it's more than ridiculous. It displays the glaring ignorance of the general public and its gullibility in blindly accepting everything they read or hear. You, badlander, imply in your tone that I blame the girl for being raped and that, should it happen again in the case of Hopper, that I will automatically blame the girl. You can deny this until you're blue in the face but this IS what you meant. I believe that 'mocking' was the correct term for me to use.
I'll be honest with you. I really do regret having jumped into this thread. I knew beforehand that I'd be little more than bait thrown to the wolves because I know people. It just riled me when I saw all of the ugliness displayed in EVERY post toward someone who was trying to make good his past deeds. This was not a discussion. It still isn't. It was a hate-mongering session. It still is though things are settling down as the thread slowly dies.
I'll be honest with you. I really do regret having jumped into this thread. I knew beforehand that I'd be little more than bait thrown to the wolves because I know people. It just riled me when I saw all of the ugliness displayed in EVERY post toward someone who was trying to make good his past deeds. This was not a discussion. It still isn't. It was a hate-mongering session. It still is though things are settling down as the thread slowly dies.
How about we let it?
I'll let it die, but first I want to add a final opinion:
First, you're not bait thrown to the wolves. There was a lot of anger and frustration thrown around, and a topic like this is incendiary and always explodes at some point.
On the matter of the 'ugliness' we've shown: no matter what steps he takes, he will never be able to properly 'make good' on his past deeds. The stain of a sexual assault charge, whether the verdict was 'guilty' or 'not guilty', will shadow him for the rest of his life.
Frankly, I think he's been rather fortunate; given the way prison populations treat child molesters, he's pretty damn lucky to have survived the duration of his sentence.
Will I forgive him? No. Someone who preys on children doesn't deserve forgiveness; he isn't some badly-behaved boy that has to apologize for pulling his sister's hair.
He's been punished, served his sentence, and now he's back in the community. And now, I'm going to move on and give him no further thought.
I don't take at face value everything I read in the papers or see on the TV news as being 'the gospel truth' as most of our media-manipulated society does. The only things that "I" know as being the 'gospel truth' are the things that I'm actually a witness to. I question pretty well everything and this seems to work for me, even if I might get ripped apart on a forum for doing so. I really can't let that bother me even though, I confess, it does bother me at times. If I read that a 13 year-old girl was raped at knife-point I automatically wonder, 'Hmmm ...how did this all come about?/did this guy force himself on the girl or was the sex part consensual at first anyway?/did he even know that she was only 13?/was the knife-at-the-throat some game they were both playing?/was it the girl who later cried rape or was it the girl's parents after they found out?/did the girl invent the knife story to get herself off the hook for participating in the sex act'? Those kinds of things. Would it still have been rape? Perhaps. That was the charge. Hopper was found guilty. He served ten years in prison. Other than this I don't know any more than what I've read on the cheap sensationalist tabloids.
Because I question these things I AM certainly mocked by those who automatically take the view that I'm somehow complicit in the rape act itself. It's ridiculous. Actually, it's more than ridiculous. It displays the glaring ignorance of the general public and its gullibility in blindly accepting everything they read or hear. You, badlander, imply in your tone that I blame the girl for being raped and that, should it happen again in the case of Hopper, that I will automatically blame the girl. You can deny this until you're blue in the face but this IS what you meant. I believe that 'mocking' was the correct term for me to use.
I'll be honest with you. I really do regret having jumped into this thread. I knew beforehand that I'd be little more than bait thrown to the wolves because I know people. It just riled me when I saw all of the ugliness displayed in EVERY post toward someone who was trying to make good his past deeds. This was not a discussion. It still isn't. It was a hate-mongering session. It still is though things are settling down as the thread slowly dies.
How about we let it?
Don't regret your opinion and contributions to the thread Rom. You gave your view...and others gave theirs.
The contentious debates are usually the most interesting. I liked it, myself.
BTW...you held your own very well, against a major onslaught. Excellent job, IMO. I found many of your points to have good merit. The subject matter caused a lot emotional fogging...and many had trouble breaking through it sufficiently to function outside of the headtrips. Just the nature of the beast...and I understand the basis of their emotive posture.
Don't regret your opinion and contributions to the thread Rom. You gave your view...and others gave theirs.
The contentious debates are usually the most interesting. I liked it, myself.
BTW...you held your own very well, against a major onslaught. Excellent job, IMO. I found many of your points to have good merit. The subject matter caused a lot emotional fogging...and many had trouble breaking through it sufficiently to function outside of the headtrips. Just the nature of the beast...and I understand the basis of their emotive posture.
It's amazing how a nod or a smile can make someone's day. You did this for me. Thank you.
Yeah, it is true Kiddo...whether we like it or not:
I said this:
"MORE people are adopting a Religious mindset than are losing it."
From your link:
But nones aren’t inheriting the Earth just yet. In many parts of the world—sub-Saharan Africa in particular—religion is growing so fast that nones’ share of the global population will actually shrink in 25 years as the world turns into what one researcher has described as “the secularizing West and the rapidly growing rest.” (The other highly secular part of the world is China, where the Cultural Revolution tamped down religion for decades, while in some former Communist countries, religion is on the increase.)
Religion has super-mojo. That's just the way it is.
I'll let it die, but first I want to add a final opinion:
First, you're not bait thrown to the wolves. There was a lot of anger and frustration thrown around, and a topic like this is incendiary and always explodes at some point.
On the matter of the 'ugliness' we've shown: no matter what steps he takes, he will never be able to properly 'make good' on his past deeds. The stain of a sexual assault charge, whether the verdict was 'guilty' or 'not guilty', will shadow him for the rest of his life.
Yes, but only because you and yours create and perpetuate this situation, FNB. That's the ONLY reason. And, EVEN if he's NOT guilty! You come across as being a stern and a hard-hearted man ...someone who can't forgive (below) ...someone who is quite okay with the notion that some people 'deserve' to be hated or even beaten up and killed if need be (below). I sense that you believe yourself to be a decent human being, FNB. But I'm glad I'm not you. I'm glad that you were not my father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
Frankly, I think he's been rather fortunate; given the way prison populations treat child molesters, he's pretty damn lucky to have survived the duration of his sentence.
A rather typical but horrific remark, FNB, from those that actually believe themselves to be upright and moral. One's giving even 'couched' approval of thugs beating up on or even killing someone else in a filthy jail setting speaks volumes about that person. And you refer to the likes of Hopper as 'disgusting'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
Will I forgive him? No. Someone who preys on children doesn't deserve forgiveness; he isn't some badly-behaved boy that has to apologize for pulling his sister's hair.
It's not up to you to forgive Hopper. He doesn't require your forgiveness. It's up to the one time 13 year-old girl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
He's been punished, served his sentence, and now he's back in the community. And now, I'm going to move on and give him no further thought.
Good. And nor will I. But I did need to respond to your post. I also attach the following link to show the power of forgiveness even to the hardest of hearts:
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,941,333 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Yes, but only because you and yours create and perpetuate this situation, FNB. That's the ONLY reason. And, EVEN if he's NOT guilty! You come across as being a stern and a hard-hearted man ...someone who can't forgive (below) ...someone who is quite okay with the notion that some people 'deserve' to be hated or even beaten up and killed if need be (below). I sense that you believe yourself to be a decent human being, FNB. But I'm glad I'm not you. I'm glad that you were not my father.
A rather typical but horrific remark, FNB, from those that actually believe themselves to be upright and moral. One's giving even 'couched' approval of thugs beating up on or even killing someone else in a filthy jail setting speaks volumes about that person. And you refer to the likes of Hopper as 'disgusting'.
It's not up to you to forgive Hopper. He doesn't require your forgiveness. It's up to the one time 13 year-old girl.
Good. And nor will I. But I did need to respond to your post. I also attach the following link to show the power of forgiveness even to the hardest of hearts:
Still not standing up for the victim, we see. She must of seduced him or be one of those 13 year old tramps you knew.
Stop digging your hole. We know you stand on the side of the convicted felon, the felon convicted of rape and sodomy while holding a razor knife to a 13 year old girls throat, and that you have shown no compassion for the trauma she went through by that despicable act of Hopper's. Some of us have our suspicions why you take the perspective you do, and so vehemently, as it is a pattern among certain cohorts of the population. You keep enhancing your reputation of not being at odds with that cohort.
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