Wonder why Christians are looked down upon? Just read the Christian responses in these 2 threads. (myths, perspective)
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I wish to offer an apology to FredNotBob for my post 186. I didn't read his post as well as I might have. My bad. I just more or less focused on certain things and pretty much ignored the rest. I just now read the full post. Anyway, I could have and should have responded with something less rude.
Apology accepted. We all get escalated, sometimes.
If you are privvy to the court transcripts of this case I would appreciate it if you could direct me to them. My idea of debate is to FIRST get the FACTS from an OFFICIAL SOURCE rather than from some cheap tabloid media source/s. So far all I have seen from such media sources are vague references to the original crime (no actual description of events/no specific dates) and similar vague references to other relatively minor offenses. The 'cheap stuff' is all I can find about this case on the Internet. If you're going all out to nail this guy and make sure his life from now on is miserable at least get your facts from an official source. Do you HAVE an official source or are you just reading the same vague and slanted stuff that I am?
All that said, cupper ...since you're so concerned for the girl in question and give the impression on a forum that you're some sort of a moral crusader I trust that you've made efforts to contact the little girl (now a woman) and to offer her your support? That would be what I would try to do if I felt so strongly about something.
Would not contacting the girl who you are not sure was raped being a violation of her rights? I mean she has two reasons to be protected from the public, one is she was a rape victim and often their names are not out to the public plus she was a minor at the time, the system is set up to protect the identity of minors. Why should she have her name brought out at this time and perhaps publically shamed just so that you know who was the victim when Hopper was found guilty in a court. The fact is he was convicted of the crime and is on a sex offenders registry and that is public record. It is not up to others to try to prove that the crime he spent 10 years in jail actually happened or else it is false. If you do not think or know if he was guilty then show evidence that he is not. If he was just accused and never tried you would have a case. The cases of minors being raped are normally do not have transcripts on line for anyone to see. The one article I did see stated that she attend a church of the same name as the one Hopper is now working at but it did not give the name of the town so it may be the same or may be a different one.
If Cupper was able to find out the name and address of the victim it would be due to the system failing her. If this is the only way you would believe the story it is better that we all ignore the story. The story has been on numerous news sources including a business journal. I believe in one story it had the conviction being 1993 but not sure the day or year of the offense. sure it is in public record.
And before you attack me again for being vindictive, I never agreed that Hopper should not be allowed to work at the church, I do have some problems with how it was handled based on the info we do have but not necessarily with him working at the same church he attended as a little boy.
Again why should laws need to be broken and a woman's nightmare as a young girl be made public simply so you will believe that a man convicted of a crime, and who is not even claiming he did not do it, was actually convicted of a crime?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
If you are privvy to the court transcripts of this case I would appreciate it if you could direct me to them. My idea of debate is to FIRST get the FACTS from an OFFICIAL SOURCE rather than from some cheap tabloid media source/s. So far all I have seen from such media sources are vague references to the original crime (no actual description of events/no specific dates) and similar vague references to other relatively minor offenses. The 'cheap stuff' is all I can find about this case on the Internet. If you're going all out to nail this guy and make sure his life from now on is miserable at least get your facts from an official source. Do you HAVE an official source or are you just reading the same vague and slanted stuff that I am?
All that said, cupper ...since you're so concerned for the girl in question and give the impression on a forum that you're some sort of a moral crusader I trust that you've made efforts to contact the little girl (now a woman) and to offer her your support? That would be what I would try to do if I felt so strongly about something.
I've given you links to the Kentucky Sexual Offenders registry. That is as official as it gets.
So people CAN NOT change in your world? Do you even have a shred of evidence that this guy is currently a rapist? After all, that's what you are saying he is CURRENTLY. No one is defending the guy's sinful act. It's despicable, but unless you have prove that the guy is still doing the acts, you are cold and unforgiving. I've seen harden criminals get out of prison and become loving faithful Christians. People can change through Christ.
Pedophilia and pederasty have notoriously abysmal "cure" rates.
So odds are overwhelmingly in favor of this individual either currently still raping, currently fantasizing about raping, or currently planning how to rape but not get caught the next time.
The above may alternate with periods of contrition/self-loathing/promises to self/promises to God until the urge becomes overwhelming again.
Pedophilia and pederasty have notoriously abysmal "cure" rates.
So odds are overwhelmingly in favor of this individual either currently still raping, currently fantasizing about raping, or currently planning how to rape but not get caught the next time.
The above may alternate with periods of contrition/self-loathing/promises to self/promises to God until the urge becomes overwhelming again.
In other words, you have zero proof that this guy is still a rapist. Just your unsuppported opinion.
You know...reading through this thread, I'm beginning to wonder just how many people out and about in society are wandering around fully believing raping children is excusable if Jesus becomes involved later, with the understanding, of course, that if the child consented to the knife at her throat as well as the rape then it's less heinous (I mean sometimes they want that...you know?), and will go to any lengths, turn around any quotes, rewrite any history, semantic-to-death any subject and basically jump through hoops to excuse such a thing.
I'm not going to quote any one person here but I have to be honest, the thought just makes me afraid. In general. It is REALLY unnerving and I think I have just learned a little bit more than I ever wanted to know about what seemingly average, typical people may actually be thinking about how acceptable child rape is given certain parameters, such as Jesus coming into the person's heart and X amount of months or years between rapes or since the last convicted rape (???)
If I were a praying person the thing I'd be praying for right now would be that nobody I know, and more importantly, nobody my children know secretly feels this way and, given the chance - say, an anonymous internet forum - would be more than happy to be very vocal about it.
Some of the excuses I'm seeing here are eerily parallel to the ones rapists themselves use, and certainly pedophiles, and that scares me even more. [Sometimes the rape victim WANTS it, it's consent/it takes two to tango, there are cultures that have 13-year-old female children married off so apparently the definition of rape here is just cultural, we don't have PROOF that a rapist will do it again, we don't even have proof that knife-point sex with a child was actually rape - what if she consented to the sex AND the knife I guess is the intimation there (????? WTH ?????), we don't have proof that the crimes formerly committed by this person were actually rape - that could be media lies, forgiveness should not have "conditions," a sin is a sin - they're all the same since sin is just sin - rape isn't really any worse than the next sin, there's such a thing "as forgiveness," and a whole lot of hyperbole about "people in such-and-such a state who committed a crime decades and decades ago" that don't match this particular rapist's rap sheet.]
It makes me wonder what people aren't saying. What they'd say, admit to feeling...perhaps doing (who knows?), if that tiny bit of paranoia at being targeted by the feds and having their computer activities monitored based on their obviously supporting both violent (i.e. the weapon) rape in general and pederasty specifically weren't there.
I probably shouldn't have opened this thread...that's on me. Nobody's fault but my own, that part. I guess though I anticipated a backlash, I never, seriously never expected support of violent weapon-held child rape. Never.
I didn't think it was possible for C-D to shock me after this many years on it.
In other words, you have zero proof that this guy is still a rapist. Just your unsuppported opinion.
Actually, you have zero proof that this man has bucked the overwhelming odds to become an extreme minority of pedophiles/pederasts who no longer have the urge to have sex with adolescents.
That proof would be on you, not me, as we ALREADY have proof that he has indeed had the urge to have sex with adolescents, and indeed, was convicted of it acting on that urge - by threatening death (the knife) and forcing. So that's been established. It's not a theory, it's not a bad feeling, it's not a sense I or anyone else may have, a vibe, a suspicion - nope, it definitively happened. There's the foundation.
What's your foundation for believing this guy ISN'T a rapist or that he no longer has rape urges and urges to have sex with children? Do you have evidence from this man's past to support that? Do you have present evidence to support that a pederast/pedophile is more likely not to commit such crimes again, than to commit them? If so, would you mind presenting that?
I don't know that the next time I put cheese down on the table, my cats will jump up and snatch it off and run away with it, but I can tell you I sure am not putting the cheese out again just to roll the dice.
I don't know that if I get puking drunk and drive, I will get into an accident and kill myself and possibly others, but I am definitely not going to try it.
I don't know that if I lie on my work sheet, I'll get caught and fired, but I'm not about to give that a shot.
And I don't know that you're about to pull out some roundabout way to do everything in your power to root positively for a convicted child rapist but...wait, scratch that. I do know that. Sorry, carry on...
By the way, my "opinion" on recidivism as regards child molestation is not unsupported. I'd give you links but I don't think you want them. They are not links that would support how child rape is okay. But just on the off chance...do you want some links?
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