Wonder why Christians are looked down upon? Just read the Christian responses in these 2 threads. (punishment, Earth)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually, you have zero proof that this man has bucked the overwhelming odds to become an extreme minority of pedophiles/pederasts who no longer have the urge to have sex with adolescents.
That proof would be on you, not me, as we ALREADY have proof that he has indeed had the urge to have sex with adolescents, and indeed, was convicted of it acting on that urge - by threatening death (the knife) and forcing. So that's been established. It's not a theory, it's not a bad feeling, it's not a sense I or anyone else may have, a vibe, a suspicion - nope, it definitively happened. There's the foundation.
What's your foundation for believing this guy ISN'T a rapist or that he no longer has rape urges and urges to have sex with children? Do you have evidence from this man's past to support that? Do you have present evidence to support that a pederast/pedophile is more likely not to commit such crimes again, than to commit them? If so, would you mind presenting that?
I don't know that the next time I put cheese down on the table, my cats will jump up and snatch it off and run away with it, but I can tell you I sure am not putting the cheese out again just to roll the dice.
I don't know that if I get puking drunk and drive, I will get into an accident and kill myself and possibly others, but I am definitely not going to try it.
I don't know that if I lie on my work sheet, I'll get caught and fired, but I'm not about to give that a shot.
And I don't know that you're about to pull out some roundabout way to do everything in your power to root positively for a convicted child rapist but...wait, scratch that. I do know that. Sorry, carry on...
By the way, my "opinion" on recidivism as regards child molestation is not unsupported. I'd give you links but I don't think you want them. They are not links that would support how child rape is okay. But just on the off chance...do you want some links?
Typical dodging. Let me explain, if you make a claim, back it up!! You claim he is STILL a rapist. Prove it. Instead, you dump the onus on me which is typical deflection tactic.
Furthermore, you throw at me this stance that it is practically impossible for a sex offender to reform without a single lick of evidence. It only took me 10 seconds to find a website saying the exact opposite:
Quote:
Recently the Bureau of Justice Statistics published a study which tracked 9,700 sex offenders for three years, 2001-2004. Their findings concluded:
Only 5.3% of these people imprisoned for sex crimes were re-arrested for a subsequent sex offense.
Where a child was involved, the re-arrest rate dropped to 3.3%.
Between two adults, the sexual re-offense rate was 2.2%.
Typical dodging. Let me explain, if you make a claim, back it up!! You claim he is STILL a rapist. Prove it. Instead, you dump the onus on me which is typical deflection tactic.
Actually, I never claimed he, this one man specifically, is definitively still a rapist. I gave odds and research-based information but never once did I claim I could "prove" this exact person is currently raping.
That was pretty clear. Abundantly, you-couldn't-possibly-mistake-this clear.
I even gave examples of other "non-proven" things that, given past behavior/past results, I would (and ANY rational person would) avoid today. Just to make things clearer yet.
And frankly, possibly having a little niece or neighbor's daughter raped would fall under the umbrella of "things to proactively avoid" rather than, say, placing her front and center with a man formerly convicted of crimes, plural, including the knife-point rape of a child. "Proof" or not.
But did I say this exact person is currently raping and further, say I had proof? Never, not one time; you're reaching, Jeff. It's nor working very well, though.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
You know...reading through this thread, I'm beginning to wonder just how many people out and about in society are wandering around fully believing raping children is excusable if Jesus becomes involved later, with the understanding, of course, that if the child consented to the knife at her throat as well as the rape then it's less heinous (I mean sometimes they want that...you know?), and will go to any lengths, turn around any quotes, rewrite any history, semantic-to-death any subject and basically jump through hoops to excuse such a thing.
I'm not going to quote any one person here but I have to be honest, the thought just makes me afraid. In general. It is REALLY unnerving and I think I have just learned a little bit more than I ever wanted to know about what seemingly average, typical people may actually be thinking about how acceptable child rape is given certain parameters, such as Jesus coming into the person's heart and X amount of months or years between rapes or since the last convicted rape (???)
If I were a praying person the thing I'd be praying for right now would be that nobody I know, and more importantly, nobody my children know secretly feels this way and, given the chance - say, an anonymous internet forum - would be more than happy to be very vocal about it.
Some of the excuses I'm seeing here are eerily parallel to the ones rapists themselves use, and certainly pedophiles, and that scares me even more. [Sometimes the rape victim WANTS it, it's consent/it takes two to tango, there are cultures that have 13-year-old female children married off so apparently the definition of rape here is just cultural, we don't have PROOF that a rapist will do it again, we don't even have proof that knife-point sex with a child was actually rape - what if she consented to the sex AND the knife I guess is the intimation there (????? WTH ?????), we don't have proof that the crimes formerly committed by this person were actually rape - that could be media lies, forgiveness should not have "conditions," a sin is a sin - they're all the same since sin is just sin - rape isn't really any worse than the next sin, there's such a thing "as forgiveness," and a whole lot of hyperbole about "people in such-and-such a state who committed a crime decades and decades ago" that don't match this particular rapist's rap sheet.]
It makes me wonder what people aren't saying. What they'd say, admit to feeling...perhaps doing (who knows?), if that tiny bit of paranoia at being targeted by the feds and having their computer activities monitored based on their obviously supporting both violent (i.e. the weapon) rape in general and pederasty specifically weren't there.
I probably shouldn't have opened this thread...that's on me. Nobody's fault but my own, that part. I guess though I anticipated a backlash, I never, seriously never expected support of violent weapon-held child rape. Never.
I didn't think it was possible for C-D to shock me after this many years on it.
What you so eloquently post here is what has shocked me. I am used to having different perspectives on religion with those who post here, but I too never thought we would have one person in particular, but a number who agree with him, post that it was in any way, shape or form excusable and forgivable that a rapist who holds a knife to a child as he rapes and sodomizes her (that is what he was convicted of). They then double down on blaming the victim, suggesting it was her fault, she was a tramp, she seduced him etc. etc.
As I've mentioned before, my daughter has worked with at risk girls, girls who were sexually abused and girls who were forced to work the streets by pimps. I've heard the horror stories, and can only say that I am glad that my province has long term programs to try and help these girls get out of their horror. To see that there are grown men, men who proclaim to be religious, excuse the criminal and blame the victim just turns my stomach.
They are almost as disgusting a human being as the rapist is. One truly wonders what past they have to be so empathetic to the criminal.
But we'll never know since Jeff has done a swell job of ignoring that post.
Again. I'm sure that sisters and daughters HAVE dated or married formerly convicted sex offenders. A very obvious case in point is that Hopper is presently married to someone's sister or daughter.
Also again, it's generally considered to be up to the sister or the daughter who they marry, not the brother or the parents.
Typical dodging. Let me explain, if you make a claim, back it up!! You claim he is STILL a rapist. Prove it. Instead, you dump the onus on me which is typical deflection tactic.
Furthermore, you throw at me this stance that it is practically impossible for a sex offender to reform without a single lick of evidence. It only took me 10 seconds to find a website saying the exact opposite:
That site must be from one of your "special" sources...
Hanson and Morton-Bourgon (2004) conducted a meta-analysis of 95 studies involving a combined sample of 31,216 sex offenders. The average sexual recidivism rate found was 13.7 percent and the average overall recidivism rate was 36.9 percent, based on an average followup period of 5 to 6 years.
Then there is this....Recidivism rates are typically based on officially recorded information, such as an arrest, criminal conviction, or incarceration. Because these official statistics reflect only offenses that come to the attention of authorities, they are a diluted measure of reoffending. Research has clearly demonstrated that many sex offenses are never reported to authorities.
Okay. Is it possible for common sense to prevail here when considering THE PRESENT FACTS? Our friend, cupper, can continue frothing at the mouth with hysteria all he wants but THE FACTS are that the man in question (who has NO IDEA that people on a forum are giving him hell) IS now a married man and HAS been accepted by the church pastor and the congregation to which he belongs.
And that's pretty much it. Case closed.
Now, how far do you guys intend to take this? Are you going to lobby for his removal from the church because YOU don't like a man you don't even know? Are any of you planning to go to Kentucky to lynch this man? At least one person here HAS threatened to murder the guy if he has the chance ...a VERY disturbing comment to make even though it was likely not to be taken seriously. I'm not sure. Heat of the moment remarks may be indication of real intent. Has it even occurred to any of you that this man IS making efforts to redeem himself? He is living in society, just the same as we are. Has it ever occurred to any of you that those who actually KNOW this man as being more than an article in a tabloid media story actually like the guy? Do any of you realize that all of your emotional rants on this thread don't change the situation ONE IOTA?
This thread, thanks to our moral crusader, cupper, has managed to whip up hysteria in people like nothing I've ever witnessed previously. I've heard of similar things in the media where, for instance, the naming and shaming of a formerly convicted pedophile, caused property damage in Britain by a hoard of hysterical thugs who got the wrong address and created havoc for 'innocent' people. People are driven by unseen forces that can make them do some pretty terrible things. Some names on this thread who have been caught up in this nonsense rather surprises me.
Someone around here has to be the voice of reason. And, unfortunately for that person he also becomes a template for insults, innuendos and mockery. That's hysteria at work, folks!
One more time before I depart. Hopper is a free man. There are minimal restrictions placed on him. He currently has a position with a church and appears to be doing a good job. The tenet of any Christian church is that they forgive the penitent and also accept even the unloved and, perhaps,'the unlovable'. It's simply following the teaching of Jesus. The congregation of this church have (I believe) accepted Hopper as one of their own. These things have got NOTHING to do with me ...a mere member of a (very good) forum.
So you, cupper (a bitter and an obsessive man if ever I came across one), can rant and rave until the cows come home. But you will not change what already IS. You're simply expending your unbridled anger (I believe there is medication for this) and your hysteria for naught ...other than getting a few others riled up and acting silly on a forum! I really have nothing more to say without covering the same ground.
That site must be from one of your "special" sources...
Hanson and Morton-Bourgon (2004) conducted a meta-analysis of 95 studies involving a combined sample of 31,216 sex offenders. The average sexual recidivism rate found was 13.7 percent and the average overall recidivism rate was 36.9 percent, based on an average followup period of 5 to 6 years.
Then there is this....Recidivism rates are typically based on officially recorded information, such as an arrest, criminal conviction, or incarceration. Because these official statistics reflect only offenses that come to the attention of authorities, they are a diluted measure of reoffending. Research has clearly demonstrated that many sex offenses are never reported to authorities.
I really DID need to jump in here since I doubt that anyone else will.
The above has nothing, zilch, nada to do with the church hiring of Hopper! Nor are any provisions being made for the vast number of sex offenders that DON'T re-offend! There must be THOUSANDS of them! Wander among a crowd, a shopping mall, a restaurant, a movie theater, a church, etc. etc. The chances are that SOMEWHERE among that crowd is at least one formerly convicted sex offender or a sex offender that was never caught and convicted!
Moreover, how the heck has research been clearly demonstrated on 'many sex offenses that were not reported to authorities'? How are such surveys conducted when they have not been reported to begin with? Was this perhaps a random door-knocking approach ..."Excuse me, I'm doing research . . .were you ever raped but didn't report it ...?"
Last edited by RomulusXXV; 04-25-2016 at 10:43 PM..
I really DID need to jump in here since I doubt that anyone else will.
The above has nothing, zilch, nada to do with the church hiring of Hopper! Nor are any provisions being made for the vast number of sex offenders that DON'T re-offend! There must be THOUSANDS of them! Wander among a crowd, a shopping mall, a restaurant, a movie theater, a church, etc. etc. The chances are that SOMEWHERE among that crowd is at least one formerly convicted sex offender or a sex offender that was never caught and convicted!
I would wager that there are a hell of a lot more that offend and re-offend, but never get caught...I'll also bet that Hopper will end up back where he belongs...In prison......They walk among us all the time..
1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse;
Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident;
During a one-year period in the U.S., 16% of youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13.
I really DID need to jump in here since I doubt that anyone else will.
The above has nothing, zilch, nada to do with the church hiring of Hopper! Nor are any provisions being made for the vast number of sex offenders that DON'T re-offend! There must be THOUSANDS of them! Wander among a crowd, a shopping mall, a restaurant, a movie theater, a church, etc. etc. The chances are that SOMEWHERE among that crowd is at least one formerly convicted sex offender or a sex offender that was never caught and convicted!
Moreover, how the heck has research been clearly demonstrated on 'many sex offenses that were not reported to authorities'? How are such surveys conducted when they have not been reported to begin with? Was this perhaps a random door-knocking approach ..."Excuse me, I'm doing research . . .were you ever raped but didn't report it ...?"
There have been many studies on this....
Sexual assault is among the crimes which are least likely to be reported to the police. The 1999 General Social Survey (GSS) on Victimization found 78% of sexual assaults were not reported to the police. In addition, incidents of sexual assault are not always reported immediately after the offence has taken place. In some cases, sexual offences are reported long after the incident has occurred.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's nor working very well, though.
