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Still not standing up for the victim, we see. She must of seduced him or be one of those 13 year old tramps you knew.
Stop digging your hole. We know you stand on the side of the convicted felon, the felon convicted of rape and sodomy while holding a razor knife to a 13 year old girls throat, and that you have shown no compassion for the trauma she went through by that despicable act of Hopper's. Some of us have our suspicions why you take the perspective you do, and so vehemently, as it is a pattern among certain cohorts of the population. You keep enhancing your reputation of not being at odds with that cohort.
He didn't say he was "siding with" or "standing up for" the guy. That is just a outright lie.
He said he was extending forgiveness to him.
I admire Rom for that...it is certainly more than I could ever do. He has a more loving character than I do. Loving who most find completely unlovable. Bigtime props to him on that.
He didn't say he was "siding with" or "standing up for" the guy. That is just a outright lie.
He said he was extending forgiveness to him.
I admire Rom for that...it is certainly more than I could ever do. He has a more loving character than I do. Loving who most find completely unlovable. Bigtime props to him on that.
You must not have been following this thread. He has been "siding with" and "taking up for" the convicted child molester one post after another. He even went as far as to say that maybe it was just a game he played with the 13 year old, and other equally ignorant things.
If he had simply stated, as you seem to think he did, that he forgives the guy and he should be given a second chance and left it at that, then it would not have blown up into what it did. That isn't what he did though, and if you read through this thread, you would know that.
Yes, but only because you and yours create and perpetuate this situation, FNB. That's the ONLY reason. And, EVEN if he's NOT guilty! You come across as being a stern and a hard-hearted man ...someone who can't forgive (below) ...someone who is quite okay with the notion that some people 'deserve' to be hated or even beaten up and killed if need be (below). I sense that you believe yourself to be a decent human being, FNB. But I'm glad I'm not you. I'm glad that you were not my father.
I'm not at all okay with the idea of people being hated or killed. I'm even less okay with the sexual abuse of a thirteen-year-old girl. So, which is the lesser evil, Rom? Hating a man for raping a child, or trying to forgive someone for molesting a thirteen-year-old-girl at knife point?
'Forgiveness' would mean that I accept that what he did is worthy of forgiveness. I don't.
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A rather typical but horrific remark, FNB, from those that actually believe themselves to be upright and moral. One's giving even 'couched' approval of thugs beating up on or even killing someone else in a filthy jail setting speaks volumes about that person. And you refer to the likes of Hopper as 'disgusting'.
What about sexual abuse isn't disgusting? What about the sexual abuse of a child isn't disgusting?
You think I'm approving violence? News flash: I'm a pacifist and a conscientious objector.
Hopper is incredibly lucky that he survived; it is a fact that prison populations have precisely zero tolerance for child-molesters. Rival prison gangs will drop years-long feuds solely to join forces and go after an abuser.
Honestly, I think spending ten years in an everyone-against-him hellhole like that is punishment in and of itself, regardless of his prison sentence.
Quote:
It's not up to you to forgive Hopper. He doesn't require your forgiveness. It's up to the one time 13 year-old girl.
No, he doesn't need my forgiveness. What he did stands beyond forgiveness. The only person that can truly give himself any kind of absolution is Hopper himself.
Quote:
Good. And nor will I. But I did need to respond to your post. I also attach the following link to show the power of forgiveness even to the hardest of hearts:
(URL snipped)
I know the power of forgiveness. Believe me, I have bitter personal experience with seeking forgiveness (I won't get into; it's a very painful private matter). Thank you, though, for sharing the video.
We've got different views, Rom. That doesn't make them wrong.
I'm not at all okay with the idea of people being hated or killed. I'm even less okay with the sexual abuse of a thirteen-year-old girl. So, which is the lesser evil, Rom? Hating a man for raping a child, or trying to forgive someone for molesting a thirteen-year-old-girl at knife point?
'Forgiveness' would mean that I accept that what he did is worthy of forgiveness. I don't.
What about sexual abuse isn't disgusting? What about the sexual abuse of a child isn't disgusting?
You think I'm approving violence? News flash: I'm a pacifist and a conscientious objector.
Hopper is incredibly lucky that he survived; it is a fact that prison populations have precisely zero tolerance for child-molesters. Rival prison gangs will drop years-long feuds solely to join forces and go after an abuser.
Honestly, I think spending ten years in an everyone-against-him hellhole like that is punishment in and of itself, regardless of his prison sentence.
No, he doesn't need my forgiveness. What he did stands beyond forgiveness. The only person that can truly give himself any kind of absolution is Hopper himself.
I know the power of forgiveness. Believe me, I have bitter personal experience with seeking forgiveness (I won't get into; it's a very painful private matter). Thank you, though, for sharing the video.
We've got different views, Rom. That doesn't make them wrong.
You must not have been following this thread. He has been "siding with" and "taking up for" the convicted child molester one post after another. He even went as far as to say that maybe it was just a game he played with the 13 year old, and other equally ignorant things.
I really Do want to depart from this thread. But I keep coming across posts that require a response. I have an inquiring mind, southernbored. I just don't simply take things at face value. I prefer facts on which to base my viewpoints. I make no apologies for this either to you or to anyone else. Got it? Good!
In this particular case I 'side' with Hopper only because of the ugliness displayed in this thread both by its OP (rather typical so I've found) and by those who also jumped on to his hate bandwagon so readily as he knew they would. For those that are too dense (most it would seem) to grasp the facts of this case AT PRESENT ...they ARE:
...it was determined by a parole board of Hoppers peers that Hopper be released into society.
...the board determined that Hopper was 'low risk' and that his only restriction be that he needs permission to enter a school should he (for some reason) see a need to do so.
...Hopper served a ten year penalty imposed on him by the state. Again, he was considered 'low risk' and there was no reason to keep him incarcerated for any longer than the term originally given him.
...Hopper was 'hired' to serve a specific task with his local church. No law breaking involved here.
...The congregation of that church (as far as I know) have accepted Hopper. There is NO REASON WHATEVER for this thread to have been initiated to stir up controversy in the first place!
For those that may be too ignorant to know this, I will explain as simply as I can how the judicial system works. It is NOT based on emotion or red-in-the-face hysteria. Once a penalty has been paid for an offense the person is then released into society. It may be a full release or it may have conditions attached. Release has been the case for thousands of former prison inmates (some formerly convicted rapists) who now mingle in society with (gasp) cupper and his merry band of anonymous forum fans. Again, Hopper is only one of thousands! If cupper knew who they were he would no doubt start up yet another thread and get the same bunch of people on board yelling for blood! Continuing on ....imprisonment was THE punishment imposed on the offender by the state. The punishment DOES NOT start once that former prisoner is released. But this HAS been what has occurred on this hateful thread. AND, it all came about from a cheap tabloid news report looking for a sensational story with which to stir up its 'cuppers' and others who hide in the safety of 'anonymity'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
If he had simply stated, as you seem to think he did, that he forgives the guy and he should be given a second chance and left it at that, then it would not have blown up into what it did. That isn't what he did though, and if you read through this thread, you would know that.
You have clearly misunderstood me or, more likely, have no idea that some people come at topics from a different angle. That's me. I'm a non-conformist, I'm my own man with MY OWN thoughts. I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest or going along with the crowd. That said ...unless there's something that I've neglected to address and a question is required of me then I really would prefer to depart from this thread.
I really Do want to depart from this thread. But I keep coming across posts that require a response. I have an inquiring mind, southernbored. I just don't simply take things at face value. I prefer facts on which to base my viewpoints. I make no apologies for this either to you or to anyone else. Got it? Good!
In this particular case I 'side' with Hopper only because of the ugliness displayed in this thread both by its OP (rather typical so I've found) and by those who also jumped on to his hate bandwagon so readily as he knew they would. For those that are too dense (most it would seem) to grasp the facts of this case AT PRESENT ...they ARE:
...it was determined by a parole board of Hoppers peers that Hopper be released into society.
...the board determined that Hopper was 'low risk' and that his only restriction be that he needs permission to enter a school should he (for some reason) see a need to do so.
...Hopper served a ten year penalty imposed on him by the state. Again, he was considered 'low risk' and there was no reason to keep him incarcerated for any longer than the term originally given him.
...Hopper was 'hired' to serve a specific task with his local church. No law breaking involved here.
...The congregation of that church (as far as I know) have accepted Hopper. There is NO REASON WHATEVER for this thread to have been initiated to stir up controversy in the first place!
For those that may be too ignorant to know this, I will explain as simply as I can how the judicial system works. It is NOT based on emotion or red-in-the-face hysteria. Once a penalty has been paid for an offense the person is then released into society. It may be a full release or it may have conditions attached. Release has been the case for thousands of former prison inmates (some formerly convicted rapists) who now mingle in society with (gasp) cupper and his merry band of anonymous forum fans. Again, Hopper is only one of thousands! If cupper knew who they were he would no doubt start up yet another thread and get the same bunch of people on board yelling for blood! Continuing on ....imprisonment was THE punishment imposed on the offender by the state. The punishment DOES NOT start once that former prisoner is released. But this HAS been what has occurred on this hateful thread. AND, it all came about from a cheap tabloid news report looking for a sensational story with which to stir up its 'cuppers' and others who hide in the safety of 'anonymity'.
We are not too "dense and ignorant" to understand what is going on. I know you seem to have a need to tell others how ignorant they are if they disagree with you, but just keep in mind... we are not the ones defending a child rapist, and wondering if the 13 year old girl "wanted it".
Now, I have never said that the pastor should not have hired the guy, or that the guy shouldn't get a second chance. I have said that I personally would not have hired him or given him a second chance, because the innocent people and children around me deserve more respect than a guy who raped a 13 year old girl at knifepoint. I would NEVER trust someone who could do such a thing, and it is not my place to "forgive" him.
The objection, at least for most, isn't that the guy was hired. No, it was that the pastor did not let anyone know of his past. If you are going to hire a person who is a sex offender and has been arrested numerous time, you should probably let the people he will be around know about it. Secondly, it is the fact that the pastor likened rape to stealing candy.
I also see that you seem stuck on this whole "tabloid news report" deal. Well, I hate to tell you, but it is FACT that he raped that girl. It is also FACT that he has been arrested numerous other time for various things, including stalking. There is documentation of that. If you are simply objecting to the titles of the stories and whatnot, then okay, but his record is what it is. It is not made up.
I would still like to know why you are so defensive on the issue, and why you feel compelled to talk up a convicted rapist. Seems you have something invested in it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
You have clearly misunderstood me or, more likely, have no idea that some people come at topics from a different angle. That's me. I'm a non-conformist, I'm my own man with MY OWN thoughts. I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest or going along with the crowd. That said ...unless there's something that I've neglected to address and a question is required of me then I really would prefer to depart from this thread.
Good for you. If you want to depart, then please do so. If you have some irrational need to have the last word, then go for it. No one is keeping you here.
So what are your comments about the pastor saying:
It is just like stealing candy
The 13 year old victim was complicit in the rape, "It takes two to tango".
Do you have no comments about the pastor's words? Why not?
This "pastors" noodles are overbaked. There is no lower form of life than a rapist, except a child rapist, which the perp in this case is. All I can feel for a rapist is hatred and disgust. This defense of the perpetrator by this so called man of God, is close to as disgusting. I choose to see things differently from him. Though I am a Christian, I am not Christ, Whom I do not believe would see things as this "pastor" (Pharisee) does, either. However, I do not speak in absolutes, because, as I said, I am not Christ, but I cannot believe, myself, He would defend the pastors words, either. Passing judgement on children for the disgusting act of a man, just doesn't come off as His style.
It does seem, that in your anger and disgust over this, you speak very broadly. Being a Christian does not mean, to me anyway, that I give up my humanity to follow that path. Giving that up comes later. In the meantime, j feel the same anger and disgust for this as you do. But I don't blame God, or the Holy Spirit, for the crimes of man. This act was committed by a man, and then defended by another. That's not the work of Christ.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber
This "pastors" noodles are overbaked. There is no lower form of life than a rapist, except a child rapist, which the perp in this case is. All I can feel for a rapist is hatred and disgust. This defense of the perpetrator by this so called man of God, is close to as disgusting. I choose to see things differently from him. Though I am a Christian, I am not Christ, Whom I do not believe would see things as this "pastor" (Pharisee) does, either. However, I do not speak in absolutes, because, as I said, I am not Christ, but I cannot believe, myself, He would defend the pastors words, either. Passing judgement on children for the disgusting act of a man, just doesn't come off as His style.
It does seem, that in your anger and disgust over this, you speak very broadly. Being a Christian does not mean, to me anyway, that I give up my humanity to follow that path. Giving that up comes later. In the meantime, j feel the same anger and disgust for this as you do. But I don't blame God, or the Holy Spirit, for the crimes of man. This act was committed by a man, and then defended by another. That's not the work of Christ.
My general disgust is not only with the horrific crime, but that there are so many people who call themselves Christian that excuse it, and worse, shift blame on the victim. I don't brand all or even most Christians with the same broad brush (most I know are great, moral people), but I do rail against the insanity of acceptance one sees of the cult of ''foregiveness" and deflection.
My general disgust is not only with the horrific crime, but that there are so many people who call themselves Christian that excuse it, and worse, shift blame on the victim. I don't brand all or even most Christians with the same broad brush (most I know are great, moral people), but I do rail against the insanity of acceptance one sees of the cult of ''foregiveness" and deflection.
Mmmm...yes. In cases such as this, acceptance is out of the question, and he can take any forgiveness there is to extend from God Himself. I would be more than happy, to speed him on his way to the....courthouse..for his hearing. As I said earlier, I reserve a special kind of hatred for rapists. I've more than ample call to feel thus. How to send them off now, that's more problematic than other types of situations. I wouldn't waste a good rope to hang a rapist, soiling clean steel with his blood would be ...bad form, and bullets are better used elsewhere. Besides, each of the latter options are for meting out a swift death. A shot of adrenaline, so be doesn't lose consciousness to quick, and tossed into a pool of Pirhana, or a pit full of wolverines might do.
Yes , these are very unChristian thoughts, rife with anger and vengeance, and that's a sin I just have to admit to. A weakness of my humanity that I can't get past. I've seen the damage rapists do, and seen the smugness they project, thinking that doing such a thing to a woman is their right. That their victims " wanted it" or "had it coming". ..Well,you get the idea. I need to reel it in. The subject of rape/molestation yanks my chain, pretty badly. Having been through the aftermath of such an attack, with someone I love more than life has ...jaded me. To see words such as this "pastors" , in defense of such a man, and to tar the victim, in Gods name, is unacceptable, for me.
Everyone has something that can push them to the breaking point. This is mine....
I have seen pedophiles get out of prison and molest 4-6 more kids before being arrested again..
Do you have pedophiles babysit your kids? Ask you church brethren how many want a pedophile top spend quality time ALONE with their children..then tell us how people"change."
Thas cause you can't change a pedophile, if he wants to repent and ask for forgiveness, that's between him and God as long as he is doing it behind bars the rest of his life. Personally, I don't know this story but in most cases, I would seek the death penalty every single time and if that doesn't come, don't ever let him out of jail.
Aint no fixing those people is it.
I aint believing it.
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