Billy Graham's Daughter: God Is Turning Away From America And Leaving Us To Our Sins (gospel, worship)
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She spoke of "favor" as in this being the lead nation of the world, at this day and age.
Wouldn't the desire to be the lead nation be a worldly,
materialistic one? How does the ranking of one's earthly
homeland come into play in regards to one's relationship
with the Divine? Personally, I don't see it as relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85
Could you make your post a little longer?
Considering the track-record of such predictions, that
shouldn't be hard to do. Give it time.
Wouldn't the desire to be the lead nation be a worldly,
materialistic one? How does the ranking of one's earthly
homeland come into play in regards to one's relationship
with the Divine? Personally, I don't see it as relevant.
Considering the track-record of such predictions, that
shouldn't be hard to do. Give it time.
-
It can be, note; I say can be, (because we have no conclusive answer).
As a lead nation, we must be one of just cause in peace and pursuit of good will and the respect of what is humanity, what is dignitywithin democracy. These are but values spoken of in biblical literature,
Here is some post which give conceptual ideas of what it is to be a leader in Democracy within the nation and about the world
There are many post discussing the aspects of society, its challenges, its changes and many things of which this nations has struggled through, in pursuit of becoming the core of what is democracy. and that is the embrace of "equality" !!! we can never understate the value of what is "equality" as it is foundational to what is democracy.
We lead today because of the PREMISE of Democracy, WHICH WAS FOUNDED UPON THE PRINCIPLE OF EQUALITY. IF faltered greatly in this area when greed, avarice and glutton engulfed the newly freed who came here as a search for liberty of individualism, UNFORTUNATELY, they brought with them and underlying form, format and ideological aspiration of what they could not be in the country they came from. Which was a Class and Status Change to emulate and or simulate the Monarchical Eliteness, some came from every form on "non democratic systems", which was the roots of their history, and they emulate the manner, actions and modes of the same abuses they claimed to seek escape from and it led them to come to embrace indentured servitude, and ultimately slavery and sought to cast themselves in a class category based on race, of a variety of ethnicities of Caucasian persuasions, and thus subjugated any who were not of such race and the ethnicities which were of Caucasian make up. They too came and brought a variety of Religious Ideologies, those too became melded and molded into the racism which dominated and plagued this nation for Centuries and now is a burdensome nuisance in the society of today. I say, burdensome nusiance, because for the past 50 yrs, we have reached a point of at the very least of establishing "one vote for one person", unfortunately, we are colluded, by the "citizens united legalities" which give voice and multi-collective vote to "the wealthy" which aims and proceeds in process to usury the voice and vote of the individual. Thus, chasing the aim of taking voice from the people via impositions of legalities which abuse the process and seek to circumvent the rule and premise of what is Democracy.
If we get back to the core of what is Democracy, we are then facing what is and will be "Equality" of the human being in the civil and civic nature of life in America. Then we lead from there.
We've not done as bad as many may make it seem, because we have become and we are the greatest humanitarian nation on the planet, and we can be that within even the chaos of the capitalistic monetary system. It is our job, to make the corrective adjustment to the capitalistic system, and we do that with governance, establishing and modifying and improving regulatory governance. This mean, the government must have a say in what some don't want it to have a say, but it must speak and then it must stand to back what is spoken. That is "regulatory management in a progressive format", which means simply we improve, modify and add the regulations as we need them in the continual push for a "fair play system" that is suited for the "Equality of Individuals and the rights of the individual in program, process, function, actions, work and life to be regarded, respected and included in the equilibrium of economic process and function. Not having the poor faced with "a loaded deck" against and upon them.
We push to promote this ideology and we lead then by example.
Much of many religions speak about the wealth of nations, realism in a material it takes the wealth of nations to sustain itself in being a nation and a partner as well as a humanitarian leader within and among nations. That means much, because what is wealth is of the world and we as a nation gather what support as well as what constitutes that wealth from around the world. Therefore, we must too lead in pushing even more for fair and equitable trade relations with the world of nation.
This expands to include our Constitution Obligation within our Democratic System as well unto and within what is religious freedoms. It is up to the individual to choose their faith, as well, it is up to the individual equally so, to know what isa charlatan, false prophet, cults, mad men and fools as well as to understand the nature and manner in which "man" has, can and may well continue to seek to use religions to divide, defeat, deter, delude and mislead any or many and know of the many names which seek to use religiosity for malice and other non humanitarian concerns and non-compassionate considerations.
Each speaks of "One God", then be it so, "One God", by what ever name the religion seeks to make reference to name, but in principle to accept the ideology of "One God".
For a God that we cannot see, but we can believe in, that has no face, not shape nor form to our visible knowing, but is all things and within all things and is of the core creator of all things. Then ... we works simply to share the wisdom's we learn, without turning them into vice and caste and class divisions of contending madness.
It's more work than the span of us as individual can attain, not only can we not attain it in a lifetime, we cannot conceive of the awesome beauty it has all the potential to be and become, but we do our part within our generation to be, and teach what we can to those who carry the generations forth.
Interesting as to our society
(the Constitution does, after all, mention God. Article VII reads, "done in Convention … the Seventeenth Day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America We additionally, place upon our Currency - In God We Trust
There has never been a precious stone made without the heat and pressures of the earth, nor does Gold or any things of material precious nature as such come into being except through tremendous pressures of various sorts. We do not come to the world as Adults, we come as babies, 100% reliant, and we grow, we learn and we life, hopefully with aims to do well, live with grace and be gracious within our living.
We can never forget that what is "of freedom" is always and will always come within and through responsibility in being and doing so within our living. Embrace of such is what is the core that can and will sustain the premise of leadership, which pursue freedoms for all.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 04-28-2016 at 07:20 PM..
In all era's and time gone past as well as those to come - the good, bad, evil and gracious, will likely always be a part of society.
Each day is simply anew, much with the same frailties that plague every era of mankind. I agree that the things of many era's as so spoken of in the bible, as well as wittiness by people living to this day, have contained some horrendous things.
the list of the Seven sins as well as the Seven virtue will not depart from the world which we live.... it makes up the reality which is ever-present.
What do we do with 'wisdom"? is it but for the individual to atone themselves to improve themselves, because non can or has changed the whole of the world in the lifetime of mankind.
I will not call God some Santa Claus or such, in that respect, one may believe as they choose as to how they interpret the concept of God or do not interpret a concept of God.
It does not change that I believe there is a God- and so, the teaching is that God is a forgiving God, so each generation, era of mankind has been brought to, led to and will be brought to and led to an atonement within ones self as to how they come to view what is their life as well as what is or is not and will or will not be their relation to God, and or the concept of God.,
There are many who don't choose to believe in God, its not for me or anyone to convince them, it is their's to choose within their heart and mind or not to choose.
You ability to go on, paragraph after paragraph, saying absolutely nothing, is impressive.
The simple fact is that America in 2016 is more free, more equitable, and more just than it has ever been. And you hate that.
America has always been a promise, a promise of liberty. It's an unfulfilled promise, and it probably always will be, for it is a human institution and human beings are flawed. But it always gets closer to that promise, and that's the key. Continual improvement - always a little better than it was last year.
You despise that. You lament the days of gays being beaten by police, being thrown in jail, being ostracized to the point of suicide. The loathe the fact that consenting adults are free to engage in consensual sex. You hate the liberty of the individual to be free from your religious dictates, the equality provided to Christian and non-Christian alike, the justice for those wronged by the form of religious tyranny you desire.
The promise of America is antithetical to your religious desires which are not merely for your own liberty but for everyone to be forced to conform to the way you want them to behave. That's what you hate.
The simple fact is that America in 2016 is more free, more equitable, and more just than it has ever been.
This is exactly what I'm saying !!!! What do you think the point and reference to Democracy based within Equality is stating!!!
Slow down and read it you will understand, it is quite condensed as the nature of how its is phrased indicates such, reading it without digesting, it's likely one would start off to think it say's nothing.
But fact is: "nothing" as of your usage of the word as reference to discredit, does not exist. "Everything is something", its up to the individual to grasp what it is and within what context it is presented.
What we live today is not any different than the same of what has been the nature and realism of empires long before this one, and when this one is no longer the leading empire, there will be another, and it too will find what it finds according to the ways of life and standards it adopts and choose.
Every age of mankind has seen the rise and fall of empires and nation, and in the cycle of such, as we as individuals "age' we see changes, we learn over time, virtues and values, we come to know trials and tribulations as a society and we live through the horrors and ills of the vices of mankind.
........ It is too quite likely that these times we live today, are better than any time in history in many ways, it may even become better for the greater part of the whole of the world as we know it.Who knows, but likewise so, it may become the change of an Empire of which we don't know. post #6
Why, because economic trials and even devastation have never happened in the years between 33AD and today? This is unique to right now and is "the worst"? I mean for goodness sake, Great Depression, anyone? With no social programs to help people through it.
In a gigantic portion of former times, all across the globe, when economic devastation happened people just literally starved. Today we have aid for people in crisis. Another plus for people's reason to hope today v. yesteryear. It is not a perfect system and people always need help but there's a chance in a way that, in many times and locales prior, there just wasn't any, period. You were going to die ill and lying in rags in an alley, full stop. There is NO WAY this article provides support for today being "worst" and a reason to keep an eye out for Jesus coming down on a cloud.
In this US presidential election cycle we have a VERY Jewish candidate with the temerity to say that while (1) Israel has a right to exist, it (2) overreaches and dehumanizes people in many of its responses to Palestinian provocations, and (3) the only way there can ever be peace is for both sides to commit in principle to respect each other, starting with Israel not appropriating Palestinian territory for its own settlements.
Hear! Hear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Trump is our very own Mussolini, ......
Let's hope the same happens to him as happened to Mussolini.
Why, because economic trials and even devastation have never happened in the years between 33AD and today? This is unique to right now and is "the worst"? I mean for goodness sake, Great Depression, anyone? With no social programs to help people through it.
In a gigantic portion of former times, all across the globe, when economic devastation happened people just literally starved. Today we have aid for people in crisis. Another plus for people's reason to hope today v. yesteryear. It is not a perfect system and people always need help but there's a chance in a way that, in many times and locales prior, there just wasn't any, period. You were going to die ill and lying in rags in an alley, full stop. There is NO WAY this article provides support for today being "worst" and a reason to keep an eye out for Jesus coming down on a cloud.
Why take it to such a literal degree- it might simply be a warning to those who are entrenched in the paper madness of Wall Street and Banking Collusion's, to wake up and simply get back to a focus on 'reality investment such as in - not chasing and building debt on "stock ticker fiction" and "broker and banking drama", and actually learn what many found they did not know during the crash of 2007-2008.
(no matter what the fiction is, fact is it comes down to production and sales consumption and what fits within the affordability of the populations as to their ability to patronize the sale and acquisition of things). (One can claim they sold all the mortgage backed securities they want, but if the people can't pay the mortgages, no matter what the fiction is about the selling of mortgage securities is, they don't have the core value, and can't and wont have it, unless the people can and do pay the mortgages). the same goes for companies trading at 300 or 3000% above their ability to perform, if the company can't perform, the fiction collapses, and anything they leveraged based upon it will collapse, because the company cannot produce and sale to meet the fictional claim of value. Therefore, Value is at core, one thing, and fiction about it is another. The wise will LEARN and come to know The Core Value, before they play the game of fiction built up around it. Sadly, some will always get in, spin and cash out and other will loose their shirt and companies will fall.
Quote:
"Sears", there is absolutely no reasons it should have ever fell. It should have bought the land, and manged based on actual and factual sales. Not build and borrow based on fiction. there was never even a need for it to go public, nor believe the drama about the fiction surrounding and based in going public.
ANYONE, and yes that means "Anyone", who bet their life on the fiction of "paper shuffled over-estimation and exaggerated expectations" wake up. Whether they are big or small investors,.. To AWAKEN and ask themselves questions as to what they chase and how they delude themselves to hunt down investments based on broker and trader drama, and over inflation of fictitious stock ticker numbers.
Maybe it might even be wise for investor's to Re-Think and Call to questions the blind faith they have in CEO's.
If by chance such would come to awareness, it might just trigger a change in the concept of the whole Executive Madness.
We know today is not what life was in times before, but that does not give it some exemption from calamity. If one remembers from readings, 1929 Crash, did not mean the building fell, or the home became demolished, all of such things still stood, but many stood with a vast degree of "emptiness".
It's as sad today, when one watch once robust Automotive plans sit "empty", after massive investments, massive profits made and massive structures with a vast amount of infrastructure built up to support it, and we watch in many cities such things sit "idle" and in some cases simply decaying.
Things are changing, what it will ultimately become, "who knows", It's not likely to trigger some incident of Jesus coming to save the Industrial Complex as in some biblical "end of times" . If that were likely, it probably would have happened many times before for the sake of saving industry and economics.
Industry and Economic's is but a system within the society, the matter within society as well as biblical premise speaks about the heart and soul of mankind, not about the vanity of mankind's economic ignorance. the heart and soul of mankind has seen no era without the wickedness of man and his greed, avarice, gluttony, lust and all such things existing diving acts of madness and abuses against other mankind.
Calamity in business has already been addressed under the vices of mankind, such as greed, avarice, and all the things of such sorts. Which has been a part of the human experiences through every empire and every generational group of societies, both of empires and struggling nations.
We see for example, many nations where dictators stash away money in foreign locations and then exile themselves to live in luxury all from the rip offs of the people of the nation they claimed to head.
President Obama told American the same things Teddy Roosevelt told them, he even referenced it and they provided "Stimilus Funding" to do some of the things to help re-establish some solidity in the equation. Again, greed came and did what greed does, shuffled, played games and looted as much of such funding as they could and led by republican fluff which did everything and is still doing everything to try and make sure those programs do not have the achievement level they were meant and capable of having.
We are moving forward, but it may take another calamity of crash situations before people can actually hear, understand and learn what President Obama tried to get done, maybe they may even re-learn what Teddy Roosevelt tried and did do, which Republican have been trying to un-do it for decades upon decades. this is related to economics of society.
Not whether man chooses to reject the premise of God principle and become purely Anti- God in the whole of a society and is majority mass, to become driven by the plight to demean the whole concept of God.. (we don't know what such could and/or would bring in the overall of the vast universe we are part of)
Maybe its close to time in this era for mankind within and for societies advancements to achieve greater things; to awaken, and become an INTELLEGENT SOCIETY, with enough intellegence to understand that it is within the power of the people, "The POOR".. to stop worshiping anyone in a suit who claims a degree, and anyone with a label of CEO as if they some Guru figure and stop following the delusions painted by anyone with wealthy and their spill of lip flipping which has a single aim of enriching themselves even more at the expense of a society who is "literally Ignorant" when it comes to business, banking, finance and their ability to have an impact on industry and industrial leaders, as well as their power to stand behind programs, policies and systems changes, of which are similar to the likes of what President Obama tried to awaken people to understand. That is: "Build America back up from the bottom up". But when he said that, the wealthy spent billions to dupe the people to deny such a aim and goal..
We have a mass of so called boot-strappers, who want to claim they did everything all on their own.
That's the bigoted ignorance that is pervasive. The American system, its method, and structure is the base which helps many gain what ever they claim they gained all by themselves.
We have a mass of Right Winger, who always crying about someone wanting something for nothing, and they will be at the head of the line fighting if any aspect of the system or programs is not structured in their best interest as being hoarders and grabbers and complainer about the rest of the masses.
It's quite likely when the Roman Empire came to change challenges, or the British Empire came to change challenges, they had some of the same ideological challenge concept, in facing the decline of their stature and watching the rise of others, as well as the many many empires through-out history.
Who knows what will be- American could astronomically spike upwards from where it is, or it could not. We don't know.
What we should know, is the world now is measured in billions, 10's, 100's of such, into 10's and 100's of Trillions and we don't know the limits or where or when or how that will expand.
What we do know is the expenditure and investment of many Trillions has gone into making much in this day and age, and we should know what parts of financial measurements is fiction and what parts have functional stability as to productions and consumption's.
We probably should learn that, money is a necessity, but it is not the whole measure of the human being. (except among those who choose to measure themselves by such).
It's certainly not likely that man, ripping off others is the driver of Jesus coming. One thing is certain, no man has ever died and taken with him not one earthly penny from this material earth.
Man creates his concepts of monetary value, no different than the art community put the price on art, and no matter what price they put, it is still simply in principle, "art" created by man. If one wants to spend "$30 million for a painting", then that has nothing to do with God's Premise. The museum could burn down tomorrow, and the principles of God premise will still exist, the same a it exist. If the Picture of the Last Supper burned, its not likely that Jesus would simply show up and demolish mankind because of it.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 04-30-2016 at 01:31 PM..
Let's hope the same happens to him as happened to Mussolini.
Yeah, but let us also hope that what happened to the Italians UNDER Mussolini doesn't happen to Americans under Trump, before Trump meets his fate.
I read an article yesterday that claims it is now a virtual mathematical certainty that the Democratic convention will also be contested, so there is still significant potential for this to be a Sanders vs Trump rather than Clinton vs Trump contest -- in my view the former is a near certain loss for Trump, the latter a near certain win. One wag said in the past few days that 68% of voters claim they would never vote for Trump, while 58% claim they would never vote for Clinton ... the Democrats apparently having the strategy to decimate Trump with their 10% lower distaste rating ;-)
This election cycle is nothing if not ... interesting. In the sense of the old Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times".
Anyhoo, the point relative to this thread is: it used to be the bad old days, it's still the bad old days. Because people used to be human, and they're still human. And any improvements to the human condition are way too slow and incremental to be of great significance in any one person's lifetime.
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