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What a ridiculous argument. If I walk into a bakery where cakes are sold, clearly the bakery is in the business of selling cakes. I am not in the business of buying cakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
This ruling was from the Colorado Supreme Court, not the Supreme Court of the United States.
However, citing the Supreme Court ruling last summer, the court said: "As the Court of Appeals ruled, refusing to serve a same-sex wedding cannot be distinguished from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, just like a “tax on wearing yarmulkes is a tax on Jews.” Because his cakeshop does not have a religious purpose, he is not protected by the religious exemptions in the state’s nondiscrimination law."
Now we know that, at least in Colorado, cake shops are not religious based businesses. Maybe they are in other states, but not in Colorado. I would assume that a "Bible book shop" is, but the court didn't give any examples of what would constitute a "business with a religious purpose." So, what would you consider as a business that has a religious purpose?
Now, the court specifically addressed the 1st Amendment issues, whether it be freedom of religion or freedom of speech. The Court of Appeals said:
“that the act of designing and selling a wedding cake to all customers free of discrimination does not convey a celebratory message about same-sex weddings likely to be understood by those who view it. We further conclude that, to the extent that the public infers from a Masterpiece wedding cake a message celebrating same-sex marriage, that message is more likely to be attributed to the customer than to Masterpiece.”
There you have it. Making a cake is not endorsing the marriage. BUYING a wedding cake MAY be sending a message that the marriage is approved, but that message does not carry back to he baker.
Here's the report of the case that the Colorado Supreme Court let stand by refusing to hear the appeal:
Oh, yes...because judges ruled a certain way in some case necessarily determines what is "right", what is "fair", and what is "just".
Some of the worst "unfairness" ever has come from judges and courts.
These are just part of the very, very long list of unfair decisions.
DENVER — The Colorado Supreme Court on Monday declined to take up the case of a suburban Denver baker who refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding, letting stand a previous ruling that the Masterpiece Cakeshop owner must provide service despite his Christian beliefs.
Great. If the States that are passing anti-equality legislation now would listen, then they can save their taxpayers a ton of money having to defend unconstitutional laws. This gay couple went to court, because, in their words:
"Craig said they persisted with the case throughout a complicated legal process because they felt it was important to set the precedent that discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation was not only wrong but illegal.
“We didn’t want anyone to have to go through what we did,” Craig said.
It's time to stop the silliness of the culture wars, and recognize that everyone has to be treated equally. If you are a business, you're in business for everyone, purple, red, black, white, grey, orange tanned like Trump, or any other mixture, straight, homosexual, lesbian, confused, swing both ways, old, young or what ever, you are constrained by the laws of the land.
When will the fundamentalists get that?
IF people could learn to respect other's religious beliefs, this never would have had to go to court in the first place. They should name it the "let's punish Christians" law.
Customers are free to purchase my delicious baked goods, or not for what ever reason. The buyers always have choice.
If you, ask me to bake a cake, I am not allowed to tell you no, because I do not approve of you, Vizini of Guilder.
If you ask me for a cake I do not bake, or an ingredient I do not use, I will decline your business, with great sadness, because I make some awesome and delicious cake.
As long as Buyers "always have a choice" who to buy from...the only "equal" way is to rule that Sellers "always have a choice" who to sell to.
Making it "fair & equal" is simple: Whatever the conditions are for one party in the transaction, is the same for the other party to the transaction.
"Always have a choice", must be for BOTH parties to be "fair & equal".
IF people could learn to respect other's religious beliefs, this never would have had to go to court in the first place. They should name it the "let's punish Christians" law.
Why would I need to know your religion before I stepped into your bakery?
I have no interest in your beliefs. I am interested in the complexity of your cake; taste, texture, flavor, and mouth feel. Those things are not part of your faith. Those things are a matter of science and skill.
Cake would not be my Waterloo. It never goes well.
Yet, the 1st Amendment says that we have the freedom of religion. Your desire for a cake cannot supercede my 1st Amendment rights to follow my convictions.
Then you really don't get it. You want to break laws and impose your personal religious views on others. In the case of the cake bigot, he lost because his religious freedom would take away his customer's freedom. People claimed it was their religious freedom to not serve black Americans. Those bigots lost too!
As long as Buyers "always have a choice" who to buy from...the only "equal" way is to rule that Sellers "always have a choice" who to sell to.
Making it "fair & equal" is simple: Whatever the conditions are for one party in the transaction, is the same for the other party to the transaction.
"Always have a choice", must be for BOTH parties to be "fair & equal".
That works in your line of work, Vizini?
In business, I do not have the choice to discriminate. I am in business to serve every customer. I make cake, cookies, and brownies. You come to me, because I have a specialty. I have no reason to turn you away. I want your business, and you want my cake. It is simple.
This ruling was from the Colorado Supreme Court, not the Supreme Court of the United States.
However, citing the Supreme Court ruling last summer, the court said: "As the Court of Appeals ruled, refusing to serve a same-sex wedding cannot be distinguished from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, just like a “tax on wearing yarmulkes is a tax on Jews.” Because his cakeshop does not have a religious purpose, he is not protected by the religious exemptions in the state’s nondiscrimination law."
Now we know that, at least in Colorado, cake shops are not religious based businesses. Maybe they are in other states, but not in Colorado. I would assume that a "Bible book shop" is, but the court didn't give any examples of what would constitute a "business with a religious purpose." So, what would you consider as a business that has a religious purpose?
Now, the court specifically addressed the 1st Amendment issues, whether it be freedom of religion or freedom of speech. The Court of Appeals said:
“that the act of designing and selling a wedding cake to all customers free of discrimination does not convey a celebratory message about same-sex weddings likely to be understood by those who view it. We further conclude that, to the extent that the public infers from a Masterpiece wedding cake a message celebrating same-sex marriage, that message is more likely to be attributed to the customer than to Masterpiece.”
There you have it. Making a cake is not endorsing the marriage. BUYING a wedding cake MAY be sending a message that the marriage is approved, but that message does not carry back to he baker.
Here's the report of the case that the Colorado Supreme Court let stand by refusing to hear the appeal:
Now if the baker re-named his store, "Evangelical Christian Bible-Literalist Bakery - serving the Bible Literalists of Lakewood, CO", and he questioned every customer to ensure they agreed with his personal religious views, maybe he'd be legal. I suspect he'd also lose business...
IF people could learn to respect other's religious beliefs, this never would have had to go to court in the first place. They should name it the "let's punish Christians" law.
First, not all Christians are discriminatory toward gay people. Second, maybe if Christian extremists would learn to respect gay people and the Law, this wouldn't have ended up in court.
I agree with the ruling. United States law is very much bases on Anglo Law which is more black-and-white law. Anglo Law doesn't like grey areas.
Who is to say what religion actually is? Who's to say what beliefs are legit and what beliefs were made up seconds ago?
Redhead could walk into my cake shop and I could say my religion believes redheads are devil people. Sorry, take your business elsewhere. It's not about hating Christians. Only Christians believe that because some can't fathom beyond their own reasoning and very particular case.
We are a free society, but a completely free one turns out to have severe limitations. Like in the late 1800s; while we pride ourselves on our capitalist society, turns out a run-away-train, completely capitalist one isn't so great after all.
The ultimate goal of Anglo Law is to maintain societal peace. NOT red-tape "well this group doesn't do business with this group, this group hates this group, I can get coffee at Starbucks but no Dunkin Donut, etc." It's all superficial until you show up at the doctor and they turn you away.
Christians
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