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Whether Atheists or Believers, we know that no religion tells it's followers to prey on kids - and no religion tells it's followers to take the life of innocent people; however, we see that we have some Church Pastors out there that are convicted of Pedophilia, and we see that some "supposedly followers and representers of Islam" have brutally taken the life of innocent people.
So here is the logic - A pastor who believes in God and he believes in God's word in the Bible, then he is very less likely to prey on kids BECAUSE he is a true believer in God. YET we see that some Pastors have preyed on kids. Why?
There is only and only one logical explanation - This pedophile pastor is NOT an actual believer in God - He has NO Faith in God - He has NO faith in God's word - He has NO concern of God's Justice - he has no regard and respect of God - he does NOT believe in God - WHICH MAKES HIM a 100% Atheist deep in his heart - no matter how big of Pastor he is - he is an Atheist in my opinion.
Same goes with terrorists - A "Muslim" who believes in God and his word and his justice, then he is very less likely to take the lives of innocent people. YET we see that some supposedly self proclaimed Muslims have taken the lives of thousands of innocent people, including women and kids. Why? Because you think they misinterpret Quranic verses?
No sir, Quranic versus have been interpreted in thorough detail by many, many certified scholars of Islam 100's of years ago - and NONE of the interpretations tell the followers of Islam to start blowing themselves up in Public and/or take the life of innocent people to earn 70 virgins in heaven.
The moral and ethical guide for daily living in the light of Quran has been documented 100's of years ago by many Islamic scholars. And Muslims only need to follow it.
There is absolutely no need to reinvent the wheel - and whoever this, and he wrongly interprets Quranic versus to push his own personal agenda of killing innocent people, then he has absolutely no faith in God.
So there is ONLY and ONLY one possibility - this supposedly self proclaimed Muslim is not a believer in God - He has NO faith in God - He has no believe in God's word in Quran, He has NO concern of God's justice - he does NOT believe in God - WHICH MAKES HIM a 100% Atheist deep in his heart - no matter how long of a beard he has, and no matter how loudly he can shout "Allah Akbar". He is an Atheist, IMO.
Now, does that mean ALL Atheists are rapist and terrorists and criminals ? Absolutely not! But those who CLAIM to believe in God but go AGAINST God by killing the innocent and raping, are actually not the true believers of God.
What's God mean to you? Are things good because God/god/whichever says they are, or does god/God only do good things? If things are merely good because god/God says they are, I can go blow up a gas station down the street if the god says it's okay. Also, in Christianity you get forgiven for whatever you do so long as you're a believer. In Islam, so far as I understand, you get punished or rewarded in various degrees depending on how well you behaved in life and other factors...but there are still going to be people with a perception of a god that's different than yours who think it's a good idea to murder group X.
The most you could say is that the people you label atheists are not followers of some religions.
The Aztecs, for example, did not engage in human sacrifice for secular reasons.
Then, if God only does good, I think it would be tricky to argue that any possible all powerful, all knowing ideas about gods are good. Maybe it could be done, maybe not. That means everybody's going to have different ideas about what their perfect god perceives as right and wrong, and that means people will sometimes do bad things no matter what their beliefs are. Maybe the pedophile believes he'll be forgiven. Maybe the suicide bomber believes he'll be rewarded.
There are as many different beliefs in god as there are believers.The fact that a person is a rapist or a terrorist doesn't make them an atheist; it just makes them a bad person. You're argument is based on the premise that there is a universal idea of god, but this is not the case. A person who rapes and murders and professes a belief in god isn't necessarily lying, all it means is that they have a different idea of god.
Nothing GoCardinals posts surprises me. But it often appalls.
Do you know - I get what Cardinals is saying. It is of course, deciding who is a Christian and who is not. After all, some who offend are 'forgiven' so doing wrong in itself doesn't make one a non -Christian. As Mel Gibson said in 'Air America' "I didn't say I was a good Buddhist."
But I get the idea that the exhortations and admonishments of Christianity sorta preclude becoming a serious wrongdoer. Not doing wrong to unbelievers - that's ok, but - say - stealing from the Flock, seducing their wives, or molesting their children. If they can't get themselves 'forgiven' back into being a real Christian.
Suppose though that Christendom takes Cardinal's word as authoritative and throws an offending minister out as a 'Not Real Christian'? Then what was he? Arguably someone who did not believe. And that is what an atheist is.
That doesn't always follow. For instance the Pastor might indeed have believed in God but could not resist doing wrong. The idea that being a "Real" Christian automatically prevents them from doing wrong does not, I am afraid, hold up for a second. A not real -christian can still be a believer.
But suppose they really did not believe and were just using the ministry as a cover for their misdeeds. Then than makes then an atheist. So what? It is a nice smear on atheism. It drops a big hint not just that a wrongdoer must be an atheist, but an atheist must be a wrongdoer.
The flaw there is that atheists are no more wrongdoers than your average believer. They have a humanist morality that, while not based on a set of rules supposedly derived from a Holy Book, are nevertheless taken as a powerful social tool for living in our world.
This morality NOT based on the Bible is (so I might argue) one that the Theist isn't taught. If thus they lose their god -belief (or never had it, but used it as a cover) there is no non -god morality that they can use. Therefore they will run amok, shooting, raping, stealing and fornicating in the streets.
Thus, they may be atheists, but they are not doing wrong because they are atheists, but because religion deprived them of acquiring atheist morality, which is what we unbelievers use every day.
Good post TRANSPONDER. You made me think about my son. I don't know whether he was atheist or agnostic but he used to speak of the 'universe' in the sense of some sort of 'overall' consciousness or something. He was never taught anything biblical or Christian or anything like that. His friends admired his 'high moral compass' as they put it. He did indeed have a high moral standard and it came from his own heart. Dare I say I had some influence? I know he admired me and aspired to be like me (I found a note he wrote).
So, here we have a fine young man, raised by an atheist father and was himself an atheist, with a high moral standard who would never lie, would never harm anyone, who was always kind and helpful, who did not get it from the bible!
Christianity teaches a lot of things. For example, remember the Sabbath Day, thou shall not covet, honor your father and mother. By GoCardinal's logic, anyone who breaks any of these commandments is not really a believer. So if you skip church on Sunday, or find yourself to be jealous of someone else, or are rude to your parents, it means you're an atheist.
He also says that someone who kills innocent people is an atheist. I don't know why that is limited to Islamic terrorists, but I guess since many innocent Japanese died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, therefore Harry Truman was an atheist.
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A not real -christian can still be a believer. 
