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Reading your rant, I fully understand why many theists think atheists are mindless angry nutjobs .
I guess you must bitcch at school breakfast and lunch programs aimed at poor kids .
I guess you will have to ask an Atheist. School lunch programs are not trying to draw children with a "ministry".
I know plenty of "nut jobs" who have used children. Of course they always believe they are "ministering" to children. At least that is what they like to tell people. Poor children are often the target of "nut jobs" with a ministry.
Again. I am so glad you were prevented from your ministry. Thankful in fact.
I guess you will have to ask an Atheist. School lunch programs are not trying to draw children with a "ministry".
I know plenty of "nut jobs" who have used children. Of course they always believe they are "ministering" to children. At least that is what they like to tell people. Poor children are often the target of "nut jobs" with a ministry.
Again. I am so glad you were prevented from your ministry. Thankful in fact.
So you are thankful that poorer kids were not invited to attend church with middle class kids , and some means provided for them to get there . Until they aren't, and then to NOT want them to be a part of your church is racist and class warfare ,with you likely at the forefront of calling the white middle class folks racist for not reaching out to minorities .
That's nice to know . I wonder what harm you think was going to befall the poor kids due to them attending Subday School and youth activities with middle class kids .
So you are thankful that poorer kids were not invited to attend church with middle class kids , and some means provided for them to get there . Until they aren't, and then to NOT want them to be a part of your church is racist and class warfare ,with you likely at the forefront of calling the white middle class folks racist for not reaching out to minorities .
That's nice to know . I wonder what harm you think was going to befall the poor kids due to them attending Subday School and youth activities with middle class kids .
How white of you to think of the poor children needing your... ministry. And now, it was to let them visit middle class white kids? ahahahahahahaha Sure. That's it. It was all for the poor kids.
What is really nice is you were not given the opportunity to target poor (now) black children with your ministry.
Maybe I shouldn't have gone with a username that has the word 'skeptic' in it. The fundamentalists aren't willing to address my points because they assume it means atheist. It's sort of sad that religion and skepticism are now seems as mutually exclusive. It wasn't always like this...
But I'm going to ask my question again because I think it's important: does the graph include church donation or volunteering?
Church donations are significantly less charitable, or at least they can be. Some churches do good work for their communities, but others find pastors with a sizable income or are simply going to internal things, like evangelizing and renovations. And while I have no problem with people giving their money for these things, I don't think that should be mistaken as charity.
And volunteering is also a form of charity. One that rarely gets the credit it deserves.
My roads in the winter are cleared of ice and snow. My government helped us after Sandy demolished thousands of homes. Last year my government help us after the worst flood in our history.
My government provides lights on the roads, and speed limits. My government provided my children with a great education, and affordable Community and State Colleges.
Your church does not repair the roads you use. It does not clear the ice and snow. It does not build dams and bridges. Your church does not maintain public lands, or beaches.
My government provides people with healthcare.
I sleep better knowing my government provides us the military to keep us safe.
I have never had a problem with this President, and every President going on vacation. I am glad to help provide for his protection, and the protection of his family.
I can visit any government building in DC, and in my state. So many of them are really beautiful. The peoples house, my taxes pay for. I am proud of the things we have accomplished in this country.
Hoover Dam is a magnificent structure. My government took us to Space. We have walked on the Moon. We are going to Mars and beyond.
After 9/11, my government provided the money and tools for a long recovery. My government did not cower, and gave me hope. Despite the fact I could smell the burned bodies, the twisted steel, and the terrible smoke that burned my nostrils, I knew my government was there for us.
Preach it Sister Ronkon!
Maybe Jeff's church can pick up the tab the next time a hurricane re-arranges the topography of Texas.
Utah was mentioned as a shining example of religious minded charity . I have a good friend who has a close co -worker and friend who is a Mormon. According to this Mormon, he meets with his church once a year, WITH his tax return, to prove his income and prove he has tithed the proper amount . I admit to not checking this out , but why would a Mormon lie about this?
I'm not saying anybody actually lied, but I can tell you that proof of income is absolutely not required. Mormons are strongly encouraged to pay a full tithing, which is understood as being 10% of one's income. However, Mormon bishops are instructed that if a member of their congregation asks if the 10% should be calculated on gross or net income, their answer is to be "That's between you and the Lord." I personally pay on my gross. My husband pays on his net. Our bishop and the Church considers both of us to be "full tithe payers" -- not because we have proven anything with a tax return (which in over 45 years, we have never done), but because we both claim, with a clear conscience, to be so.
Tithing, by the way, is only one of several donations many Mormons give to their Church. My husband and I contribute to other LDS funds, including the Church's "Humanitarian Fund," the proceeds of which are used 100% in providing food, clothing, medical equipment, etc. to those in need throughout the world -- people of every race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, etc. None of the people who receive this aid has to listen to a missionary discussion on Mormonism. As a matter of fact, in the majority of the cases, the recipients of the aid probably do not even know where it came from.
Good point. I remember a 60 minutes piece a few years ago that showed how crooks were easily getting hundreds of thousands of dollars from fraudulent Medicare claims. All they had to do was create a fake business. One guy said he was raking in like 50K a week.
If our government ran a business, it would crash and die within a month. Little oversight and responsible spending.
There are abuses in all these areas, Jeff. You will be aware of those who who use religion as a way of bilking believers of millions to fund a luxurious lifestyle. At lease government isn't prevented from clamping down on such abuses, whereas any attept to crack down on abuses in the churches bring forth screams of persecution.
And, as I said, it makes no difference to whether the religious claims are true r not, apart from, if it isn't then a huge amount of where Church money goes is money down the drain. Any idea how much a Megachurch costs to build and run?
How white of you to think of the poor children needing your... ministry. And now, it was to let them visit middle class white kids? ahahahahahahaha Sure. That's it. It was all for the poor kids.
What is really nice is you were not given the opportunity to target poor (now) black children with your ministry.
Probably saved them from years of therapy.
heading to bed. fight with you tomorrow.
So now you must resort to demonizing and deprecating people you know nothing of because that is really your only argument left? Very intellectually weak , not to mention dishonest .
Suppose a 1st Baptist or 1st Methodist or other "1st" church realizes it's situation, that of being a church most likely largely white and whose members drive in to the inner older part of town from the outlying middle and upper class neighborhoods . They want to reach more to the people around them . One easy way is through ministries to kids, whether it be VBS, or youth things for older kids, or homework and after school type activities . If one of these churches engages in this , you are critical of them because they are , in your opinion, simply being condescending and graciously allowing the poor kids the opportunity to play with their white children, or they have some nefarious reason for reaching out to poor kids .
On the other hand, if the discussion were to be about churches that DONT reach out to the neighborhoods around them, and who don't make efforts to minister to the local neighborhood children and youth, and who publicly acknowledged they didn't feel the need to connect with and minister to the people around the church, most religious critics , likely I'll bet including you,would decry and criticize the racist and elitist white people who couldn't be bothered to actually mingle with the people right around their holy place of worship.
So for fanatics like you, they can do no right . You will find a way to criticize any action they take , or don't take, depending on what provides you with the opportunity to attack them .
Good point. I remember a 60 minutes piece a few years ago that showed how crooks were easily getting hundreds of thousands of dollars from fraudulent Medicare claims. All they had to do was create a fake business. One guy said he was raking in like 50K a week.
If our government ran a business, it would crash and die within a month. Little oversight and responsible spending.
Medicare fraud is small potatoes compaired to the millions of dollars defense contractors bilk the taxpayer for. Or the millions of dollars big business gets out of paying in taxes because of tax code loop holes. But by all means lets attack or cut programs for the poor. They don't really have a voice anyway.
In other words, you don't want to give your money, you want to give someone else's money.
BTW, why do you want to do this on a large scale? To make it more corrupt? Charity is best handled on a small scale, widespread.
Because poverty in not a small scale issue. I'm not saying the system is perfect or that it shouldn't be scrutinized but without the assistance the government provides to the poor they would have nowhere else left to turn. If you have thoughts and ideas on how to better provide for the poor by all means please run for office.
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heading to bed. fight with you tomorrow. 
