Ken Ham Admits Ark is a Fairy Tale. Picture Proves It. (exist, Christ)
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Good idea. Why don't you spend a little time thinking about the Noah's Ark story LOGICALLY and REALISTICALLY?
If you did you would come to the same conclusion any sane person over the age of 10 would. ie it never happened.
There are a lot o sane people that certainly believe that it happened. Even scientists and smart people that have looked at the facts. Again, I'd encourage you, as well to spend some time on the AIG website or visit the museum.
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According to your 'logic', your god knew everything would happen - taking your cute bible stories, he knew Eve would eat from the tree even though he told her not to. He knew all of humanity would get it all wrong and he'd have to drown the lot in a horrible mass murder, bar 8 people.
Yes. He did.
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So basically, either he set everyone up to fail or he made a massive mistake and tried to correct it or he's just playing everyone like a bunch of puppets. And then in the next sentence you'll probably say that god is love.
He gave them the choice to obey or not. They chose not to, and we are now paying for it as descendants of Adam. The good news is that God didn't just observe from afar--he actually became a man and died in our place, redeeming us if we simply trust in him.
You don't have to suffer the pain of hell. You can trust in Jesus and be saved from hell, just as Noah's family trusted God and got on the ark.
I remember, as a little girl, being in the waiting room of a doctor's office and picking up a children's Bible from the table. (It was there among the other books for children to read while they were waiting.) Based on my memory of where this was (what town) I must have been seven or eight years old.
It was a really COOL book...it was one of those pop-up things...right in the middle there was a pop-up rainbow that stood up when you opened those two pages. There were cardboard "doors" to open and shut and stuff like that. There was a cardboard wheel that you would turn and turn by flicking it with your thumb and a dove with an olive branch in its mouth would appear from, disappear back into, appear from, disappear back into a fluffy cloud over and over again.
Anyway, there was a picture of Noah closing a bear into a huge wooden trap. The trap had a door and when I pulled the little tab, Noah's arm opened and shut the door, trapping the bear so it could wind up on the ark.
I remember thinking then - in second or third grade - that it was IMPOSSIBLE that any person could trap two of EVERY land animal, much less transport them (I had a mental image of Noah trying to pull the bear from the trap to the ark, and the bear mauling Noah to death), and keep them alive for forty days and forty nights. That wasn't even counting the months after the waters receded - I wasn't savvy enough yet to even factor those in. I just knew the "forty days and forty nights" thing.
I kept trying and trying to believe it. It was obvious (or so I thought) that everybody else believed it. Why didn't I believe it? I think I asked my mother (I just can't remember the exact wording here) how Noah's ark was possible. I very very tentatively pointed out ONE inconsistency I saw - trapping every single animal. I was afraid to let her know just how much of this story I couldn't seem to believe. I was afraid she'd think I was a demon or something. She said maybe God put a spell on the animals so they wouldn't bite Noah.
I pretended that answer satisfied me and I "smiled huge" and walked away but immediately what popped into my head was something along the lines of: if God can literally do anything, even put a spell on animals so they don't act anything like animals, why couldn't God just put a spell on the animals for them all to go willingly to the ark and walk on board? Or why couldn't God just make the animals live through His spells without needing to be on the ark...or why couldn't He just use His powers to not let any animals, who never sinned, die?
I literally thought Satan was influencing me to keep coming up with these "evil" questions, especially since they popped so quickly into my head, completely against my bidding (as far as my perspective on them went, anyway) and I tried to FORCE myself to just believe anyway, and continued to do that for years, all the while deep inside thinking I was bound for hell and was gripped by the devil and he was having fun with me by making me not just be believing and happy like "everybody else" (again, from my perspective).
But when I look back on that now...I could cry. A little tiny girl of no more than eight, believing she was destined for hell and eternal screaming agonized torture because she couldn't believe one of THE most ludicrous, logically inconsistent stories EVER created.
It's cruel. It always makes me want to cry when I think of other children having similar thoughts...because they do. I'm nothing special. I'm not brighter than the next person (I have a very very average IQ). Other kids are having these thoughts and are terrified to express them for fear of going to hell.
And they're plastering a smile on their faces as they walk through Hamm's ark, pretending to believe it. They're looking up at Mom's and Dad's happy, shining faces and thinking, "I can't hurt their hearts and ask questions that show I don't believe like they do. Look how happy they are. How come THEY can believe but I can't? What's wrong with me? What happens when we're all dead, and they're in heaven for being able to believe, and I'm in hell, and I never see them again? Will they cry? Did I hurt them? Why can't I just be like them?"
There are a lot o sane people that certainly believe that it happened. Even scientists and smart people that have looked at the facts. Again, I'd encourage you, as well to spend some time on the AIG website or visit the museum.
Yes. He did.
He gave them the choice to obey or not. They chose not to, and we are now paying for it as descendants of Adam. The good news is that God didn't just observe from afar--he actually became a man and died in our place, redeeming us if we simply trust in him.
You don't have to suffer the pain of hell. You can trust in Jesus and be saved from hell, just as Noah's family trusted God and got on the ark.
No he didn't - according to you he knows everything. He knows exactly what you are going to do before even you do. It's all planned out beforehand. He knows if you are going to do something wrong before you do - he foresees it - therefore you have no choice - it's already written into your destiny.
Many cultures in many countries, however, have been found to have eerily similar anthropological references to a Great Flood. Many of these findings pre-date trade routes between cultures that did not have any contact with each other at the time these "stories" originated.
From Asia to the Middle East, from South America to the Native North Americans; these "stories" exist.
I think it would be counter-intuitive to say there is NO possibility of this having happened!
(The link above is just a somewhat "generic" example. What fascinates me are the actual "mythology" accounts but I didn't have time to dig up those yet.)
Last edited by coschristi; 07-27-2016 at 11:46 AM..
Reason: fix link add north
Many cultures in many countries, however, have been found to have eerily similar anthropological references to a Great Flood. Many of these findings pre-date trade routes between cultures that did not have any contact with each other at the time these "stories" originated.
From Asia to the Middle East, from South America to the Native Americans; these "stories" exist.
I think it would be counter-intuitive to say there is NO possibility of this having happened!
I think local floods, which would have seemed to a small tribe to be "their whole world", could have happened. Floods happen.
There are natural disaster stories of all types around the globe, because natural disasters were one of the things that many, many ancient tribes/groups felt were caused by gods...particularly, the gods' anger.
Many cultures in many countries, however, have been found to have eerily similar anthropological references to a Great Flood. Many of these findings pre-date trade routes between cultures that did not have any contact with each other at the time these "stories" originated.
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Originally Posted by JerZ
I think local floods, which would have seemed to a small tribe to be "their whole world", could have happened. Floods happen.
There are natural disaster stories of all types around the globe, because natural disasters were one of the things that many, many ancient tribes/groups felt were caused by gods...particularly, the gods' anger.
Exactly.
These common flood myths aren't all variations on the "Some old guy loaded his family and two of everyone on a giant boat and save life on the planet!" tale. Rather, they're variations on "Holy ****, we sure had a big old flood back in the day!".
And the reason, of course, is that almost all human civilizations are based around water. People live along rivers, seashores, lakeshores. And periodically, those rivers flood. Hurricanes occur. Tsunamis happen. Lake waters rise. Since these happen to be devastating events, they go down in local lore.
But we have Biblical propagandists who point to, say, a Dakota oral history of the Red River of the North flooding at some point in the pre-Columbian past, and claim: "See? That proves that there was a global flood and that Noah built an ark!" when, in fact, all it demonstrates is that rivers periodically flood, much to the misery of those inhabiting their banks.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by Vizio
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You don't have to suffer the pain of hell. You can trust in Jesus and be saved from hell, just as Noah's family trusted God and got on the ark.
What if there is no Jesus? No hell? No god? No Noah? You only have your bible as any indication of that, and frankly, there is so much room for interpretation and contradictions that any other tome that is presented in a similar way would be relegated to the first trash heap available.
Only your bible tells you the stories.
I suspect you're a good person. Live your life to be a positive on those whose lives you touch. Be kind to people and the environment. Earth is here to care for us, but we must care for it, not assume control of it as your bible allows. Teach the universal right things, and not just what your faith allows.
THAT is righteous living. After all, we all just become worm food in the end. And we all are just stardust.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,920,960 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
I was thinking about this.
I remember, as a little girl, being in the waiting room of a doctor's office and picking up a children's Bible from the table. (It was there among the other books for children to read while they were waiting.) Based on my memory of where this was (what town) I must have been seven or eight years old.
It was a really COOL book...it was one of those pop-up things...right in the middle there was a pop-up rainbow that stood up when you opened those two pages. There were cardboard "doors" to open and shut and stuff like that. There was a cardboard wheel that you would turn and turn by flicking it with your thumb and a dove with an olive branch in its mouth would appear from, disappear back into, appear from, disappear back into a fluffy cloud over and over again.
Anyway, there was a picture of Noah closing a bear into a huge wooden trap. The trap had a door and when I pulled the little tab, Noah's arm opened and shut the door, trapping the bear so it could wind up on the ark.
I remember thinking then - in second or third grade - that it was IMPOSSIBLE that any person could trap two of EVERY land animal, much less transport them (I had a mental image of Noah trying to pull the bear from the trap to the ark, and the bear mauling Noah to death), and keep them alive for forty days and forty nights. That wasn't even counting the months after the waters receded - I wasn't savvy enough yet to even factor those in. I just knew the "forty days and forty nights" thing.
I kept trying and trying to believe it. It was obvious (or so I thought) that everybody else believed it. Why didn't I believe it? I think I asked my mother (I just can't remember the exact wording here) how Noah's ark was possible. I very very tentatively pointed out ONE inconsistency I saw - trapping every single animal. I was afraid to let her know just how much of this story I couldn't seem to believe. I was afraid she'd think I was a demon or something. She said maybe God put a spell on the animals so they wouldn't bite Noah.
I pretended that answer satisfied me and I "smiled huge" and walked away but immediately what popped into my head was something along the lines of: if God can literally do anything, even put a spell on animals so they don't act anything like animals, why couldn't God just put a spell on the animals for them all to go willingly to the ark and walk on board? Or why couldn't God just make the animals live through His spells without needing to be on the ark...or why couldn't He just use His powers to not let any animals, who never sinned, die?
I literally thought Satan was influencing me to keep coming up with these "evil" questions, especially since they popped so quickly into my head, completely against my bidding (as far as my perspective on them went, anyway) and I tried to FORCE myself to just believe anyway, and continued to do that for years, all the while deep inside thinking I was bound for hell and was gripped by the devil and he was having fun with me by making me not just be believing and happy like "everybody else" (again, from my perspective).
But when I look back on that now...I could cry. A little tiny girl of no more than eight, believing she was destined for hell and eternal screaming agonized torture because she couldn't believe one of THE most ludicrous, logically inconsistent stories EVER created.
It's cruel. It always makes me want to cry when I think of other children having similar thoughts...because they do. I'm nothing special. I'm not brighter than the next person (I have a very very average IQ). Other kids are having these thoughts and are terrified to express them for fear of going to hell.
And they're plastering a smile on their faces as they walk through Hamm's ark, pretending to believe it. They're looking up at Mom's and Dad's happy, shining faces and thinking, "I can't hurt their hearts and ask questions that show I don't believe like they do. Look how happy they are. How come THEY can believe but I can't? What's wrong with me? What happens when we're all dead, and they're in heaven for being able to believe, and I'm in hell, and I never see them again? Will they cry? Did I hurt them? Why can't I just be like them?"
It is just so sad to me.
Wow! What an insight and what a story. Sad the influence that is exerted on young children in the lies that adults tell them, often not even knowing it is a lie.
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