Ken Ham's Opening Day at the Ark. #FAIL only 4000 show up. (moral, pyramids)
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So why did God single out only the sea creatures not to die? What did they do right? Why did He single out all but two of every land animal to die? What did they do wrong?
Bonus question: why did God decide the only righteous family patriarch on the entire plant was some guy who was going to hop out onto dry land and in short order get drunk and rip all his own clothes off?
Where oh where would the water "drain" to? And if your god caused winds to move at the end of the height of the flood, then there would be a huge amount of wave action to impact the ark. Your attempt at explanation falls apart. Once again.
Eubie, do yourself a favor. Get out of the literal mode and accept your bible as metaphorical and allegorical. You will find it much more of a spiritual experience, and you can still keep your god.
And wouldn't a glut of rain water change the sea water enough to kill a bunch of those sea creatures anyway?
So why did God single out only the sea creatures not to die? What did they do right? Why did He single out all but two of every land animal to die? What did they do wrong?
The Bible doesn't say the animals did right or wrong. It was just the humans who did wrong. And it wasn't just two of every land animal. He was to take 7 pairs of each clean animal and 2 pair of each unclean animal.
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Bonus question: why did God decide the only righteous family patriarch on the entire plant was some guy who was going to hop out onto dry land and in short order get drunk and rip all his own clothes off?
I love bonus question! Is this for extra credit if I get it right?
Relatively speaking, Noah and family were righteous and so he and family found grace with God. Absolutely speaking, Noah and family were not righteous and that is why they needed grace and so got grace.
The Bible doesn't say Noah ripped his clothes off after getting drunk. It just says:
Gen 9:21 And drinking is he of the wine and is drunk, and is exposing himself in the midst of his tent.
He was in his own private home, a tent.
It took a couple years before the grapes he planted would mature enough and another 6 months or so to make wine from those grapes. It was probably really hot at the time he drank the wine. He son walked in on him while he was asleep in his own home and made fun of him being naked to his brothers.
Now then, I imagine if I had lost all my friends and acquaintances (if he had any) in the historic world-wide flood that I would probably get drunk too.
Maybe Ken Ham's Ark Experience should show the human side of Noah?
And wouldn't a glut of rain water change the sea water enough to kill a bunch of those sea creatures anyway?
Most likely it did from the looks of all the vast deposits of shells and bones of sea creatures around the world. It is just that it didn't kill all of them since we know the oceans are filled with lots of life today due to the ones who survived that historic world-wide flood. I wonder if Ken Ham's Ark Exhibit shows this?
And wouldn't a glut of rain water change the sea water enough to kill a bunch of those sea creatures anyway?
Yes...and of course, he has already been told this on countless occasions by many different people but as we know, all he has is to keep repeating the same old tripe that has been debunked time and time again....but it sure serves our side well so I suppose we shouldn't complain.
Oh don't start with the "you weren't there" trope. It doesn't hold water anymore.
Citation for a Chinese wooden ship over 400 feet long? Rumors abound, but most scholars view the extreme length claimed as exaggerations, and the true lengths half of the claims.
The purported dimensions of these ships at 137 m (450 ft) long and 55 m (180 ft wide)[3] are at least twice as long as the largest European ships at the end of the sixteenth century. The British scientist, historian and sinologistJoseph Needham stated in his monumental research work Science and Civilisation in China that the ships were between 400 feet to 600 feet in length — greater than the Greek tessarakonteres of 3rd century BC, which were reported to be as long as 128 m (425 ft). Treasure ships' dimensions are debated on practical engineering grounds, with some suggesting they were as short as 61–76 m (200–250 feet) or that they could only have been used on special occasions in the relative safety of the lower Yangtze River. Although a claimed treasure ship rudder has been unearthed in Nanjing, its size is no larger than rudders known to have been used in sub 60 metre Jiangsu trading ships of the 1930s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship
That a "claimed treasure ship rudder has been unearthed" does not disprove the research Joseph Needham did. It just proves that one of the treasure ships rudder may have been used on a ship 200-250 feet in length.
They found those Chinese even used a form of concrete in the bottom of their huge ships to make them more sea worthy. Smart folks.
Here is another write-up about Zheng He's ships which sailed to the Americas before Columbus did:
"Chinese treasure ships" (宝船, Bǎo Chuán), used by the commander of the fleet and his deputies (nine-masted, about 127 metres (417 feet) long and 52 metres (171 feet) wide), according to later writers.[citation needed]
Equine ships (馬船, Mǎ Chuán), carrying horses and tribute goods and repair material for the fleet (eight-masted, about 103 m (338 ft) long and 42 m (138 ft) wide).
Supply ships (粮船, Liáng Chuán), containing staple for the crew (seven-masted, about 78 m (256 ft) long and 35 m (115 ft) wide).
Troop transports (兵船, Bīng Chuán), six-masted, about 67 m (220 ft) long and 25 m (82 ft) wide.
Fuchuan warships (福船, Fú Chuán), five-masted, about 50 m (160 ft) long.
Patrol boats (坐船, Zuò Chuán), eight-oared, about 37 m (121 ft) long.
So it was a simple thing for a genius like Noah, especially when given wisdom by God, to build the ark the way he did and have it survive along with his family and animals. It would be nice if Ken Ham had these details in his Ark Exhibit too.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
The purported dimensions of these ships at 137 m (450 ft) long and 55 m (180 ft wide)[3] are at least twice as long as the largest European ships at the end of the sixteenth century. The British scientist, historian and sinologistJoseph Needham stated in his monumental research work Science and Civilisation in China that the ships were between 400 feet to 600 feet in length — greater than the Greek tessarakonteres of 3rd century BC, which were reported to be as long as 128 m (425 ft). Treasure ships' dimensions are debated on practical engineering grounds, with some suggesting they were as short as 61–76 m (200–250 feet) or that they could only have been used on special occasions in the relative safety of the lower Yangtze River. Although a claimed treasure ship rudder has been unearthed in Nanjing, its size is no larger than rudders known to have been used in sub 60 metre Jiangsu trading ships of the 1930s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship
That a "claimed treasure ship rudder has been unearthed" does not disprove the research Joseph Needham did. It just proves that one of the treasure ships rudder may have been used on a ship 200-250 feet in length.
They found those Chinese even used a form of concrete in the bottom of their huge ships to make them more sea worthy. Smart folks.
Here is another write-up about Zheng He's ships which sailed to the Americas before Columbus did:
"Chinese treasure ships" (宝船, Bǎo Chuán), used by the commander of the fleet and his deputies (nine-masted, about 127 metres (417 feet) long and 52 metres (171 feet) wide), according to later writers.[citation needed]
Equine ships (馬船, Mǎ Chuán), carrying horses and tribute goods and repair material for the fleet (eight-masted, about 103 m (338 ft) long and 42 m (138 ft) wide).
Supply ships (粮船, Liáng Chuán), containing staple for the crew (seven-masted, about 78 m (256 ft) long and 35 m (115 ft) wide).
Troop transports (兵船, Bīng Chuán), six-masted, about 67 m (220 ft) long and 25 m (82 ft) wide.
Fuchuan warships (福船, Fú Chuán), five-masted, about 50 m (160 ft) long.
Patrol boats (坐船, Zuò Chuán), eight-oared, about 37 m (121 ft) long.
So it was a simple thing for a genius like Noah, especially when given wisdom by God, to build the ark the way he did and have it survive along with his family and animals. It would be nice if Ken Ham had these details in his Ark Exhibit too.
You realize your copy and paste substaniates what I said, not you, right? Words like "claims", "citation needed" and "purported" are not exactly definitive to what you wrote.
The purported dimensions of these ships at 137 m (450 ft) long and 55 m (180 ft wide)[3] are at least twice as long as the largest European ships at the end of the sixteenth century.
Ummm. You omitted the preceding paragraph...
Scholars disagree about the factual accuracy and correct interpretation of accounts of the treasure ships.
You also omitted this too.... Some scholars argue that it is highly unlikely that Zheng He's ship was 140 metres (460 ft) in length, some estimating that it was 110–124 m (390–408 feet) long and 49–51 m (160–166 feet) wide instead [12] while others put them as 61–76 m (200–250 feet) in length,msince in later historical periods ships approaching the extreme sizes claimed for the treasure ships (such as HMS Orlando and the schooner Wyoming) were unwieldy and visibly undulated with the waves, even with steel braces.
One explanation for the alleged size of these colossal ships was that the largest 44 Zhang treasure ships were merely for a display of imperial power by the Emperor and imperial bureaucrats on the Yangtze River when on court business, including when reviewing Zheng He's actual expedition fleet. The Yangtze River, with its calmer waters, may have been navigable for such large but unseaworthy ships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...ship#Criticism
Sorry but you weren't there so you don't know. Obviously the ark made it or you wouldn't be writing posts.
The Chinese built a wooden ship over 400 feet long. The Romans also has massive ships.
I always get a chuckle at people who know next to nothing about ships so they think that "400 feet long" is a big ship.
It isn't. Not really.
A modern aircraft carrier is more than a thousand feet long.
Some of the super tankers are twice that.
In fact, a 400 foot long ship is roughly equivalent to a navy destroyer and they're some of the smallest in the fleet especially in WWII.
And yet the biggest ships are able to crew 5,000 at the extreme and these are the carriers and battleships, and these ships are able to stay at sea for a few months before having to either return to port for resupply or to undergo resupply at sea.
No ship was ever able to stay at sea with 5,000 men for 2 years ... much less a 400 foot long ship with tens of thousands of animals (millions more likely) waiting for the flood waters to recede.
So it doesn't MATTER if the Chinese built a wooden ship over 400 feet long ... or if the Romans did it ... or if the Israelites did it ... or whoever did it. Who cares? The logistics make the Noah story absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.
Not that any Biblical literalist cares one whit about reality, of course. No doubt we'll hear an earful about magic and the paranormal not to mention a load of twisted archaeological nonsense that proves absolutely nothing.
Whatever Biblical literalists spew, reality speaks for itself and we all know how reality works. Even the literalists know how reality works. They're just so eager to prove the impossible that they've given up caring how it works and are willing to believe whatever floats their impossible boat no matter how stupid it is.
If we were to discuss the same scenario in non-Biblical terms, those same people would be rushing to tell us how dumb we are for even suggesting such an idiotic thing. But because it's in the Bible, we're all supposed to believe the idiocy hook, line, sinker, fishing pole, reel, tackle box, fishing hat, fishing license, lure collection, pick-up truck, and lawn chair. All of it. ALL of it. Yum, yum, yum. Eat up, boys and girls cuz it's in the Bible, dontch'ya know!
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