Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sic. 'im , Raffs. And I just LUV his evasive "God didn't use magic". He knows damn' well what we mean and is just wriggling, wriggling, precious.
However, I wasn't going to post this as it is informative but Theists of the Third Kind will see it as abusive, Confrontational, aggressive, insulting, trollish and Vewwy, vewwy Woood
But I was interested to hear some joking suggestions about what to do with the Ark and museum when Hamm finally grabs what money remains and flees back to Australia (if it will even have him back) leaving the whole boilings bankrupt. A Kentucky centre (sorry, center) for American Atheists was suggested. But Aaron Ra remarked that Ken had PAKICETUS on the Ark, and the best reconstruction he's ever seen. There were other Transitional forms on show of the 40 critters and the answer to Why is obvious - Ken is implying that these are the Kinds from which all the present species evolved, just in a couple of thousand years, mind, not a couple of hundred million (1) and including Pakicetus to whale? Really? No wonder Eusebius thinks Ken Ham talks nonsense.
But really, wouldn't it be wonderful is Ken's "Kinds" formed the basis of an Evolution experience based on the defunct Creation museum and Hamm's Ark when it finally goes belly -up, founders and sinks without trace, as surely any actual Ark would have done in flood, even it did only have forty critters and eight humans on board.
(1) which is impossible folks, because.......there wasn't enough time!
Nothing like getting unbiased opinions (laughing out loud) from people who hate God and have a vested interest in spreading their hate in the video.
By the way, TRANSPONDER, I don't agree with Ken Ham's young earth idea. I do believe that all the variations within kinds have occurred since God created them prior to the flood and after the flood. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe since we have had vast improvements just in the last 100 years in agriculture in the world with plant breeders. Maybe in another hundred years we will have even greater outcomes from plant breeders.
Of course you stand by it. To do otherwise would mean you would have to concede that you are wrong and you just don't have the intellectual honesty to do that.. According to your Bible chronology AND two creationist websites, one of which you consistently put forward when trying to prove your beliefs, Noah's flood occurred ~2300. That means that the pyramid of Djoser was built 300 years before the alleged flood and the pyramids in Brazil were built some 700 years before the alleged flood. Coupled with that we have a verifiable, unbroken record of Egyptian Pharaohs and Queens right through the alleged flood period.We can trace recorded Egyptian Pharaohs from the Early Dynastic Period of 3100 - 2686 BCE right through to the Middle Kingdom of 2055 - 1650 BCE and we can trace neolithic Egyptian society along the Nile back as far as about 3600 BCE. ...and not a single scrap of evidence to show that they were all wiped out in a global flood.
Your hypocrisy in consistently using AiG when you think it proves your case and then rejecting it when it proves you wrong is simply intellectual bankruptcy....but we are used to that with you of course. Your favourite creation websites and the chronology of what you love to call the 'historic records' say that you are wrong and that the alleged flood was ~2300.
Flood and Creation Dating the oldest Bristlecone pines now living quite possibly have been growing since right after the flood. With "Methuselah" going back to around 2600 B.C. according to Dr. Ferguson, this becomes a very real possibility. The actual date may be adjusted for extremely wet years which occurred in the past, as shown by the numerous dry lakes in the desert regions of eastern California and Nevada. Experiments show the trees can grow more than one ring in unusual seasons.6 Some experiments have even suggested that many periods of time could have been characterized by the growth of one extra ring every one to four years, with evidence in controlled laboratory situations showing extra ring growth tied to short drought periods.12 These varied conditions could allow a slightly more recent date which may even closely match Ussher's date of 2350 B.C. Tree Rings and Biblical Chronology | The Institute for Creation Research
Deny it all you want Edgar...but let's face it. You're busted son.
Dear readers,
Just know that the oldest a Redwood can live is up to approximately 2,000 years. Therefore there are no Redwood trees living which can date the world-wide flood in Noah's day which occurred roughly 5,000 years ago.
Had Adam lived to see the flood he would have been close to 1000 years old. Since Adam was created by God approximately 6,000 years ago, and we know the flood occurred roughly 1,000 years after his creation, we therefore know the flood occurred approximately 5,000 years ago which puts it at approximately 3,000 B.C.
Maybe Ken Ham's Ark exhibit has something on this? Maybe if Rafius visits it he can tell us what he discovered there.
Dear readers,
Just know that the oldest a Redwood can live is up to approximately 2,000 years. Therefore there are no Redwood trees living which can date the world-wide flood in Noah's day which occurred roughly 5,000 years ago.
Had Adam lived to see the flood he would have been close to 1000 years old. Since Adam was created by God approximately 6,000 years ago, and we know the flood occurred roughly 1,000 years after his creation, we therefore know the flood occurred approximately 5,000 years ago which puts it at approximately 3,000 B.C.
Maybe Ken Ham's Ark exhibit has something on this? Maybe if Rafius visits it he can tell us what he discovered there.
Redwoods are not the oldest living trees. On pine in California is close to 5000 years old and a spruce in Norway near 9500 years old. And if you would ever bother to find out how sciences work you would know that dendrochronology is more than counting tree rings but in matching tree ring patterns that can take us back future using dead trees as well. But I believe I mentioned this is you a couple of times in the past. A former classmate of ,in runs a large university dendrochronology orogram. I trust his honesty and knowledge more than I do yours.
I guess the one tree not only survived the flood but also either survived the original creation of the Earth or the cleaning it off before the last creation. One tough tree.
One could always Google and find trees and colonies of trees older than Redwoods if one was interested in data or research.
I agree. I never intimated they were. Limber Pines, which I have seen and handled on Mount Baden Powell in California, were around about the time of Noah's flood.
Quote:
On pine in California is close to 5000 years old and a spruce in Norway near 9500 years old. And if you would ever bother to find out how sciences work you would know that dendrochronology is more than counting tree rings but in matching tree ring patterns that can take us back future using dead trees as well. But I believe I mentioned this is you a couple of times in the past. A former classmate of ,in runs a large university dendrochronology orogram. I trust his honesty and knowledge more than I do yours.
And I trust my honesty more than I do yours.
Quote:
I guess the one tree not only survived the flood but also either survived the original creation of the Earth or the cleaning it off before the last creation. One tough tree.
Anything is possible with magic.
Quote:
One could always Google and find trees and colonies of trees older than Redwoods if one was interested in data or research.
I agree. I never intimated they were. Limber Pines, which I have seen and handled on Mount Baden Powell in California, were around about the time of Noah's flood.
So a graduate of an evangelical university puts the flood 5000 years ago?
I was not comparing my honesty to yours but if you wish to do that I have no problem. I think brislecone pines live much longer than limber pines.
If anything is possible with magic why the effort to distort scientific findings or to call scientists liars when you could just tell us that it 2as done by magic?
If anything is possible with magic why the effort to distort scientific findings or to call scientists liars when you could just tell us that it 2as done by magic?
This admission confirms my other claims about his tenacious magical beliefs and that would refute his denials!
Nothing like getting unbiased opinions (laughing out loud) from people who hate God and have a vested interest in spreading their hate in the video.
Yes. I did say I was reluctant to post this as it would probably cause offence, but the remark about Transitionals being on Hamm's Ark persuaded me.
Quote:
By the way, TRANSPONDER, I don't agree with Ken Ham's young earth idea. I do believe that all the variations within kinds have occurred since God created them prior to the flood and after the flood. I don't know why you find that so hard to believe since we have had vast improvements just in the last 100 years in agriculture in the world with plant breeders. Maybe in another hundred years we will have even greater outcomes from plant breeders.
Yes. I think I see.
You suggest that all the 'variations' (we call it evolution as it shows a progression, not just a lot of directionless changes) occurred all the way from the Creation (1) about 6,000 years ago? But Ken suggests that the animals and plants were made in their kinds (give or take micro -evolution within the "Kinds") and then the Flood and they were all evolved at superspeed to the range of species we have now.
I'd just say that is two conflicting YE scenarios.
(1) with the flood occurring about 4,000BC? And the "Kinds" all evolving at superspeed to duplicate the range of species that had been wiped out? But you can't mean as the majority species above the flood levels are different from the species below the flood levels.
Redwoods are not the oldest living trees. On pine in California is close to 5000 years old and a spruce in Norway near 9500 years old. And if you would ever bother to find out how sciences work you would know that dendrochronology is more than counting tree rings but in matching tree ring patterns that can take us back future using dead trees as well. But I believe I mentioned this is you a couple of times in the past. A former classmate of ,in runs a large university dendrochronology orogram. I trust his honesty and knowledge more than I do yours.
I guess the one tree not only survived the flood but also either survived the original creation of the Earth or the cleaning it off before the last creation. One tough tree.
One could always Google and find trees and colonies of trees older than Redwoods if one was interested in data or research.
Damn' good. Another smokin' Eusebian wreck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I agree. I never intimated they were. Limber Pines, which I have seen and handled on Mount Baden Powell in California, were around about the time of Noah's flood.
So these trees (The name "Bristlecone pine" comes to me) are older than the Flood? And you propose a bit of a miracle to enable them to survive? I'll save you a wave of the magic wand . I recall that you referenced an account of an olive tree that had survived a year under water.
Dear readers,
Just know that the oldest a Redwood can live is up to approximately 2,000 years. Therefore there are no Redwood trees living which can date the world-wide flood in Noah's day which occurred roughly 5,000 years ago.
Had Adam lived to see the flood he would have been close to 1000 years old. Since Adam was created by God approximately 6,000 years ago, and we know the flood occurred roughly 1,000 years after his creation, we therefore know the flood occurred approximately 5,000 years ago which puts it at approximately 3,000 B.C.
Maybe Ken Ham's Ark exhibit has something on this? Maybe if Rafius visits it he can tell us what he discovered there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I agree. I never intimated they were. Limber Pines, which I have seen and handled on Mount Baden Powell in California, were around about the time of Noah's flood.
Like I said and as we can all see. You're busted Edgar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
I recall that you referenced an account of an olive tree that had survived a year under water.
Of course! Where else did the dove get an olive leaf from. Not only did the tree survive a year under water....but it kept it's fricking leaves too! Aaaaahahahaah!
Like I said and as we can all see. You're busted Edgar.
Of course! Where else did the dove get an olive leaf from. Not only did the tree survive a year under water....but it kept it's fricking leaves too! Aaaaahahahaah!
Yes, I do recall the suggestion that the leaves actually grew under water as it makes the chronology a bit tight to have the water go down, and Noah release a raven which can't find anywhere to land.
And then the water goes down further (0) . And an olive tree pokes its branches out of the drink and grows a few leaves, which the dove (held back to allow time for the leaf to grow...I should write material for Ricky Gervaise) gets released in time to pluck it and proudly show it to Noah, on the strength of which he decides to let all the aminals out. Well, if I'd have been the T Rex after a years' growth, I'd have taken one look and then clawed Noah to hash.
So..if Eusebius now opts for allowing time for the leaves to grow, that supports his other argument that grass could have grown, at least on the upper slopes of the mountain where the mud wasn't too deep (remember that some flood levels are ten, twenty or fifty feet deep) and thus there was fodder for the herbivores.
For about a week, that is. And nothing but Clean beasts (which Noah couldn't really spare) for the carnivores.
Really, while the Ark itself is logistically a nightmare, even with all the ingenious suggestions of poop removing mechanisms, shrivelling all the myriad species down to a handful of "Kinds" (1) and a freeze -drying industry to make the preservation of foodstores (2) for about a year at least sound believable, the survival of a bunch of animals in a devastated world, even without the pressing need to get super -evolution under way, surely has to deal the death -blow to the whole Ark and Flood scenario.
(0) or maybe that was the mountains inflating from just low hills (still high enough to have a permanent snowline, mind) to their present height, all in a frickin' WEEK it seems. (Creation theory seems to end up as everything Evilooshin teaches but speeded up madly to fit into a few thousand years rather than a few million, or even a fortnight, in extreme cases - for the whole inflation of the Andes, Rockies and Himalayas.)
(1) I must say that Ken Hamm is quite brilliant in getting over the argument of "Where are the Baryma?" by selecting early transitional forms (such as Pakicetus) as the basis "Kinds" from which the species would super-evolve. Because Transitionals are of course found in the fossil record.
(2) even if, as Eusebius argues, Koalas (or whatever marsupial "Kind" later became Koalas, Kangaroos, Wallabies, Dingbats and Drongoes) didn't necessarily need eucalyptus leaves, they had to eat something, and unless they ate dirt, it would go off in a couple of months, whatever it was.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-25-2016 at 05:51 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...there wasn't enough time!