Ken Ham's Opening Day at the Ark. #FAIL only 4000 show up. (Egyptian, America)
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Don't be silly. Nobody is immune to greed. Given an honest assessment, though, 'greedy religious nut trying to get rich' comes up far more often than 'greedy atheist trying to leverage a loophole'.
Creflo Dollar and Robert Tilton buy million-dollar private jets and write them off as 'church property' to escape the related tax bills. Peter Popoff solicits money from his flock, under the guise of 'faith healing' (when in actuality, his wife is feeding him information through an earpiece).
Oh I see, so out of the thousands of pastors out there, excuse me "religious nuts", you only present a handful of examples to back up your argument. I would respect atheist's opinion a tiny bit more if they could at least once admit that churches are also doing really great things for the community.
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Originally Posted by FredNotBob
And don't get me started on the Prosperity Gospel, which is basically 'keep sending me money until you wise up to my scam'.
How naive do you think we are? They're profiting at the expense of the vulnerable. This is happening -- it's happening right now, and your blind faith is telling you 'Caesar can do no wrong'.
And yet, when we try to hold them accountable, we're the villains.
But all you are doing is broad stroking, basically painting all fundamental Christians as shady or liars. That's disgusting and wrong. You reap what you sow, and if these pastors are truly cheating and lying then they got some dark days ahead of them. No one who sows sin leaves this realm with a smile on their face.
Oh I see, so out of the thousands of pastors out there, excuse me "religious nuts", you only present a handful of examples to back up your argument. I would respect atheist's opinion a tiny bit more if they could at least once admit that churches are also doing really great things for the community.
But all you are doing is broad stroking, basically painting all fundamental Christians as shady or liars. That's disgusting and wrong. You reap what you sow, and if these pastors are truly cheating and lying then they got some dark days ahead of them. No one who sows sin leaves this realm with a smile on their face.
Jeff, don't know if you even see my posts anymore however if you do read FrednotBob post you were quoting he in no way inferred that all or even a majority of pastors were like Creo Doolar or the likes. The fact that there are a handful of what seems like con artists raking in millions off of the poor and needy should offend yourself as much or even more than it offends atheists. And as far as respecting atheists a little bit, I highly doubt that as you have in the past refused to even acknowledge anything an atheists says that you can spin into something to attack them with. Same as with liberals and gays according to your numerous posts trying to make them into your enemies.
When I was a kid the Catholic Priest was my hockey and baseball coach, raised funds to build a town playground set within the church property and generally encouraged us kids to play there where it was safe and supervised. He was a credit to the community and with him running the church it was a great asset to everyone and he never ever used religion or lack of religion to separate people, that I wasn't a Christian made no difference to him. He was, thinking back, a role model. The church moved him out to another town as the church members thought him too friendly with his housekeeper. But that church and the others in the town did lots of good deeds in the town. And in painting in broad strokes you have claimed that every atheist has been mean to you and that we are mean to Christians and hate God. Unless you can show that Fred was attacking all fundamentalist Christians I think you owe him an apology. Go back and read both what he posted and what he was responding to. If I am incorrect it would be me that owes you an apology.
Obviously you and the other atheists just can't stop talking trash about Ken Ham and this attraction. On one hand, atheists blast him for weak attendances numbers based on hearsey and old articles and then on the other hands, atheists fight tooth and nail to prevent groups from attending the attraction using their only weapon, the separation of church and state. How is that fair to criticiize him for attendance when actively seekly to undermind his attendance? This is nothing but just thinly disguised hatred for anything that promotes the gospel and the Bible. I call a spade a spade.
And you have ZERO NADA ZILCH, NOTHING to back up your argument. It's just a desperate way to deny that the Ark is bringing in a lot of tourism. And that means dollars. Your argument only holds water if you have financial statements proving that the Ark's operating costs exceed average daily ticket sales. You got that? No? Then your argument fails like a day old pancake. First your ilk tried to claim no one barely showed up to the thing with false photos and writing it off as a failure after just weeks of operation. And now you resort to this. Really weak.
And it's a year old article. Enough said.
71% said the ark experience was excellent and now your absurd claim is that they are just lying in their review. I guess that's always the default atheist parachute when you try to pin them down with hardcore evidence. Everyone is a liar except atheists. Nooo, atheists would never lie, right???
How can you honestly say it is crappy when you never even been to the thing? Sorry, but all I see here is anti-Christian bias. 71% didn't think it was a waste of time or money. And I don't believe they are all liars, either.
Personally I'm open about my disgust of Christianity and other supernatural nonsense. I hope this stupid ark encounter fails and it will over time. I give it 5 yrs max. Hopefully they can recycle the wood when it fails. Personally I would love the wood to be used for charitable non religious purposes instead of being used to perpetuate a silly Christian story and myth and have children go through it with their Christian parents and set their science education back at least several years. Better yet, some children see it for the nonsense it is after touring it with their parents and go on to be atheists. Even better.
I've successfully argued that he was promised it to be tax exempt, and when the politicians reneged on it, he simply used existing law to protect himself.
It wasn't the politicians -- it was Ham himself. He directly stated that no taxpayer would subsidize the Ark, and then he willingly accepted a deal that made that claim untrue.
I'll admit that part of the blame falls on the state for not paying closer attention, but Ham said one thing and then (either willfully or inadvertently) did the exact opposite.
Oh I see, so out of the thousands of pastors out there, excuse me "religious nuts", you only present a handful of examples to back up your argument. I would respect atheist's opinion a tiny bit more if they could at least once admit that churches are also doing really great things for the community.
I've never said anything to the contrary. Churches do great things.Remember, though, that people run churches, and people are not always the bastions of morality and ethics that we would like them to be.
Thousands of pastors out there do amazing things. It's that small percentage that abuse that trust -- that take advantage of their flocks, try to fleece the government into paying for their latest anti-scientific 'the Bible says it, so it must be true' boondoggle, and generally weasel out of any kind of accountability -- that annoy me.
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But all you are doing is broad stroking, basically painting all fundamental Christians as shady or liars. That's disgusting and wrong. You reap what you sow, and if these pastors are truly cheating and lying then they got some dark days ahead of them. No one who sows sin leaves this realm with a smile on their face.
'Basically' is a weasel word, Jeff.
I have never, not once, broad-brushed Christianity or Christians. I've pointed out that there are crooks, liars and charlatans abound in the Christian world (which is true, of Christianity and every other religious and secular group that you'd care to name).
The usual response? Nothing more than a huffy 'you're being mean and unfair!'.
You can argue all you want that Christians 'shouldn't' do that, or pull the old 'No True Scotsman' from the dust again, but the facts stand: there are hucksters, con-men and thieves among you, and the longer you let them hide behind the veneer of respectable Christianity, the more damage they're allowed to do and the worse they make 'respectable' Christians look.
That is what I object to: that they exist, and that thousands of people are taken in by them, and that we are somehow the 'bad guys' for trying to open your eyes.
I don't know that I'd call them "cheap exhibits". Painstaking care was used to duplicate things which probably ain't cheap. Even the lights in there are recreated from ones that would have been used in that time period, and so are things like water and oil jugs, ect. Archeologists were used on this project. Peace
How did the arc encounter explain the source of the light for that time period, Rbbi1?
I'll bet you're gonna say candles and oil lamps?
How many mile of wick material and wax would be needed for 24/7 burning, for a year, to enable the 8 of them to do their chores in the blackness of the lower two decks?
Oil lamps ? How much oil would be needed for 24/7 burning, for a year?
You didn't really answer the question. You NEVER spend time or money on anything but Habitat? You do 2-3 a year? Great. What about the rest of the time? You seem to suggest it's the ultimate thing to do and that there is nothing that anyone else can do that's good....so why don't you do more?
I never suggested such a thing. Fundie, you really need to learn to respond to what one actually says, as opposed to what you want them to have said.
So, let me break it down for you. My husband and I are what you would call "middle class". We live in a nice area, drive somewhat decent vehicles, but don't have a lot of extra things in our life. We donate a decent portion of our earnings every year to various charities, some are even religious charities, like the food bank we donate to here in our town. I also buy things where I work to donate to various charities. We volunteer at a few different places throughout the year, doing everything from building houses to serving food.
Now, could I possibly do more? Sure, but I would be neglecting my family and would lose my home. I do everything that I am able to do, while still being able to spend as much time as I can with my son, and keep him in a good school district. If you want to claim that this means I should do more, you are certainly welcome to do so, but it would make you look crazy.
Now, answer my question fundie. What do you do to help out, and why is spending $100 million on a tourist trap and then trying to escape paying taxes, leaving the good people of KY to carry your bill, a good thing? How is it a "Christian" thing to do? How is spending $100 million on this justified when millions of people could use the help?
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