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Funny that an "elightened" society hasn't made man any more better. Man is just as evil and sadistic as the ancient world. Course the fact that evil exists is illogical in an atheist world. I don't see evil in other animal species.
There are countless reasons to believe that God exists. Pretty much no evidence to support atheism as well as raise more problems and difficulties. In an atheist world, man should never feel the need to ask what is the meaning or purpose to life.
Well, actually, it has. There's the declaration of human rights, a product of the enlightened age and a guide to living which makes the Bible and the Koran look like amateurish attempts at being moral. Then there's the rational age of scientific enquiry and western medicine which has increased life expectancy, reduced pain and suffering in individuals, reduced malnutrition in children. There is the advancement, not at all supplied by the poorly chosen "10 commandments" and the bankrupt Koran, of prohibition of slavery (mentioned in the Bible without being condemned - not even a commandment ) equality in gender rights, in reducing homophobia, in promoting animal rights, in penal codes and punishment systems which avoid the ridiculously uncivilized eye-for-an-eye and seek to rehabilitate and. Also, unlike the death penalty handed out to entire cities casually in the Bible, most modern societies in developed countries have abolished the death penalty for any reason, realizing it is barbaric.
Then there's all those people nowadays who do the right thing, as collectively agreed by us in documents like the declaration of human rights, because it is the right thing to do - not because of the preposterously silly childish prize of everlasting life if we follow the rules or eternal punishment if we don't. Who is the more moral person there?
Of course human narcissism still means many need some higher meaning planned for them by a sky-dad. They can't contemplate not being so important otherwise.
"Course the fact that evil exists is illogical in an atheist world. I don't see evil in other animal species." I don't even know what to make of this ludicrous statement. Why does the existence of evil need a God. What do you think when a lion eats a rival's cubs? What about when a chimpanzee beats to death a member of another troop? Its nature - but if you wish to anthropomize it is clearly "evil" Don't be so silly.
There you go lying about me again. I don't hate anyone. I hate sin. I hate the practices and motivations of groups like atheists who seek to destroy religious freedom through backdoor alleys and then even deny their resentment of Christians. I hate the practices of a society that increasingly demands that we accept an immoral lifestyle as natural and normal. OTOH, you and your ilk turn a blind eye to the EXTREME hateful practices of the LGBT community. This guy reported not hundresd, not thousands, but hundreds of thousands of harrassment from this community in the most despicable manner.
IF you don't hate gays and atheists, you have a funny way of showing it. Maybe you should stop with the posts that sound like you hate gays, and there would be no more misunderstandings?
Who turns a blind eye to it, Jeff? No one I know of says that gay people are free to harass others. No one I know of says these acts are justified or somehow okay. In fact, everyone condemns acts of violence or harassment. Have you been living under a rock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
It is a real problem, but Christians must find a balance to dwell with this sensitive issue. We can't support and encourage their lifestyle. It is destructive. The Bible is plain as day on the topic. You don't sow good things from living in sin. OTOH, Christians should never bully, harass, exile or turn away gay people, but embrace them with a kind heart and friendship as Christ did with the outcasts of his society. If you think we are awful people for speaking up against sin then that is the same as saying we are awful people for trying to stop someone from jumping off a cliff to their death.
Unless they are trying to get equal rights, right Jeffery? You can be supportive of a PERSON without being supportive of their lifestyle. You don't have to be a D-head to gay people, or anyone else for that matter, just because you don't like their lifestyle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Their soul and eternal destination is the most important thing. Happiness on this cursed earth is very brief for all of us. It is foolish to exchange eternal life to enjoy a few decades of sinful lifestyle that isn't guaranteed to be problem free either.
Proof for that assertion? Remember, the Bible is not proof. All we know for sure, is that we have this life, so why would you want to live it in fear or as someone you are not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I only said that they should distance themself from the growing LBGT activists who now show intolerance and hatred to those who do not support their agenda. There are good gay people out there who just want to live their life and don't support the attack on religious freedom like with the wedding cake businesses. I have no problem with those groups.
Right, you have no problem with them.... Until they want equal rights, then they are persecuting you.... Jeff, why not say what you really mean? You are fine with gay people, as long as they are never seen or heard. You are fine with gay people, as long as they don't infringe on your little bubble. It is a sad way to live life.
Hey, if having a blanky helps you keep from killing yourself Jeff, go for it. It didn't/wouldn't have helped me though, and not everyone is the same. Religion has caused suicides too, Jeff. Usually gay kids who had fundamentalist parents who hated them. You know, like you would hate your kid if he/she were gay? Like your boy Ken Ham would hate his kid/s if they were gay?
Do you realize how grossly insulting your "blanky" comment is? In fact, you are basically insulting the majority of the world's population as it suggests that we are too weak to handle life without a make belief "blanky". I wonder how those good Christian friends that you speak of would react if you told them that their beliefs were nothing more than a blanky or crutch?
And then you claim (and you phrased it as a fact, not a suggestion) that I would hate a gay child which is a flat out lie. More insults. More disrespect. More supporting my negative perception of atheists.
I'm not sure, but my guess is that you would be disappointed to learn that the most secular countries also have the lowest crime rates. Denmark, Sweden, Iceland and Japan come to mind. As you know doubt have read, the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world, higher than dictatorships. Is that because of 'evil', or because of a judicial system that encourages this, rather than deflection or rehabilitation from crime?
It certainly isn't because of more religiosity, is it?
I'm not disappointed at all. All I see here is a failure to look at the bigger picture. It's like snipping at section out of a grand painting and then claiming that section is portraying something else.
There are many social elements to consider here, some that may have notr been examined. For one thing, those countries have a highly ingrained cultural identity, unlike the US. That gives a strong sense of belonging and self pride. Also, a large part of the US crime problem is due to drugs and gangs. Countries like Japan are so strict on drugs that even a tourist can be thrown in jail for bringing in prescription medication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrum
Life the best life you can, doing no harm. That pretty well at sums up most atheists I know. What you don't seem to understand is that you too are an atheist about many gods. After all, you don't believe in the mythological gods Zeus, or Thor or Freya, right? Atheists just go one step further, and don't believe in your mythological god. For the same reasons you don't believe in the others.
Make sense?
Then why do I see countless atheists who invest their precious little time in this life to the goal of destroying Christianity? Groups like the FFRF have invested hundreds of hours and dollars to a goal that has served zero positivity to a community. Why don't they live their life instead of constantly complaining about things that have zero effect on them like Ken Ham's Ark park?
Do you realize how grossly insulting your "blanky" comment is? In fact, you are basically insulting the majority of the world's population as it suggests that we are too weak to handle life without a make belief "blanky". I wonder how those good Christian friends that you speak of would react if you told them that their beliefs were nothing more than a blanky or crutch?
I am simply replying to what you originally said, which was.... But in times of tragedy, most people are thankful that a spiritual leader is available to not only take care of physical needs, but emotional and spiritual as well. It is so comforting when you have a loved one fighting for their life in surgery, and a pastor is right there for you.
If your best reason for believing in God is that you have a spiritual leader to help you when someone is dying, or whatever, then that is nothing more than your security blanket. I have friends and family to help there, no need for a "spiritual advisor". They accomplish the same thing.
So, with that being said, what would you call a belief you hold for the purpose of making yourself feel better in times of tragedy? What would you call a belief you hold for the purpose of making yourself feel more important, or to make yourself feel better about death? I would call it a blanky, or crutch. What would you call it?
Again, if it helps you keep from killing yourself, it's all good. I don't want anyone killing themselves, so whatever is necessary. Blanky or no blanky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And then you claim (and you phrased it as a fact, not a suggestion) that I would hate a gay child which is a flat out lie. More insults. More disrespect. More supporting my negative perception of atheists.
So what would you do if you had a gay child, Jeff? Love it the exact same as a straight child? Treat it the same? If not, then you proved my point. If you would try to change them, or tell them all about how terrible gay people or being gay is, or anything of the sort, you proved my point. Maybe hate was a strong word, but you certainly wouldn't treat a gay child (or atheist child)like you would a straight one. Everyone who has ever read your posts knows this. In other words, it is a fact, even if hate were too strong a word.
I'm not disappointed at all. All I see here is a failure to look at the bigger picture. It's like snipping at section out of a grand painting and then claiming that section is portraying something else.
There are many social elements to consider here, some that may have notr been examined. For one thing, those countries have a highly ingrained cultural identity, unlike the US. That gives a strong sense of belonging and self pride. Also, a large part of the US crime problem is due to drugs and gangs. Countries like Japan are so strict on drugs that even a tourist can be thrown in jail for bringing in prescription medication.
Then why do I see countless atheists who invest their precious little time in this life to the goal of destroying Christianity? Groups like the FFRF have invested hundreds of hours and dollars to a goal that has served zero positivity to a community. Why don't they live their life instead of constantly complaining about things that have zero effect on them like Ken Ham's Ark park?
More lies from Jeffy....
The FFRF and atheists goal is not to "destroy Christianity", despite what your pastor may tell you....
Their goal is to stop the ingrained bias towards one religion in the public sphere. Has nothing to do with you practicing your religion, or your religion being viable. Just a false reason to claim atheists are out to get you, as per your normal routine.
No the good advise is to show them that their self worth is in the inner person that they are, a unique creation by God. It is our soul that defines us, not our sexuality. I could take your same argument and exchange it for a sexual practice that YOU disapprove of, and then it falls flat on its face.
There you go lying about me again. I don't hate anyone. I hate sin. I hate the practices and motivations of groups like atheists who seek to destroy religious freedom through backdoor alleys and then even deny their resentment of Christians. I hate the practices of a society that increasingly demands that we accept an immoral lifestyle as natural and normal. OTOH, you and your ilk turn a blind eye to the EXTREME hateful practices of the LGBT community. This guy reported not hundresd, not thousands, but hundreds of thousands of harrassment from this community in the most despicable manner. And yet instead of being shocked, all I see is indifference in your response.
It is a real problem, but Christians must find a balance to dwell with this sensitive issue. We can't support and encourage their lifestyle. It is destructive. The Bible is plain as day on the topic. You don't sow good things from living in sin. OTOH, Christians should never bully, harass, exile or turn away gay people, but embrace them with a kind heart and friendship as Christ did with the outcasts of his society. If you think we are awful people for speaking up against sin then that is the same as saying we are awful people for trying to stop someone from jumping off a cliff to their death.
Their soul and eternal destination is the most important thing. Happiness on this cursed earth is very brief for all of us. It is foolish to exchange eternal life to enjoy a few decades of sinful lifestyle that isn't guaranteed to be problem free either.
I only said that they should distance themself from the growing LBGT activists who now show intolerance and hatred to those who do not support their agenda. There are good gay people out there who just want to live their life and don't support the attack on religious freedom like with the wedding cake businesses. I have no problem with those groups.
Jeff, I strongly disagree with many of your points in this post, however I do appreciate the thoughtfulness and civility of it. You did state that you would tell a gay kid on the streets to stay away from other gays and then cited an example of some people behaving badly against an anti gay religious person. You may not realize this but doing this, the painting of everyone in a group as being responsible for the words and actions of a few or even one is outright bigotry. And people do not like to be tarred with the one brush, especially if it is a very inaccurate one. You do this for gays, atheists and liberals, treat them like a single entity and blame them for all the ills of the world.
You do show hatred towards gays by your own words on these forums. A suggestion is maybe for a week or two skip reading about anti gay articles in the Christian news and read Pink News instead. It may give you another prespective of what gays are facing in this world. That you think gays should accept all forms of discrimination without comment or action instead of being treated like equals infers that you do not think they should be treated as your equal.
The FFRF and atheists goal is not to "destroy Christianity", despite what your pastor may tell you....
Their goal is to stop the ingrained bias towards one religion in the public sphere. Has nothing to do with you practicing your religion, or your religion being viable. Just a false reason to claim atheists are out to get you, as per your normal routine.
Oh please, they are as transplarent as tissue paper. Their websites as links to a whole slew of anti-Christian commentary which have nothing to do with legal battles. Funny that I don't see them attacking other religions. Just take a look at this recent "news" article on their site:
Quote:
University of Mississippi's head football coach, Hugh Freeze was forced to resign Thursday night after an investigation by school officials revealed a "pattern" of phone calls from the coach to a female escort service. The Freedom From Religion Foundation is unsurprised to learn that Freeze — a man known for pushing his personal religious beliefs onto his players and using his public position to promote his faith — has revealed the hypocrisy in his conduct.
Now please tell me how reporting that a Christian man behaved like a hypocrite as ANYTHING to do with legal battles.
I'm not disappointed at all. All I see here is a failure to look at the bigger picture. It's like snipping at section out of a grand painting and then claiming that section is portraying something else.
There are many social elements to consider here, some that may have notr been examined. For one thing, those countries have a highly ingrained cultural identity, unlike the US. That gives a strong sense of belonging and self pride. Also, a large part of the US crime problem is due to drugs and gangs. Countries like Japan are so strict on drugs that even a tourist can be thrown in jail for bringing in prescription medication.
Then why do I see countless atheists who invest their precious little time in this life to the goal of destroying Christianity? Groups like the FFRF have invested hundreds of hours and dollars to a goal that has served zero positivity to a community. Why don't they live their life instead of constantly complaining about things that have zero effect on them like Ken Ham's Ark park?
Compared to the States Canada has a much lower level of religion in the public sphere, few politicians ever state if they are religious and religions has much less influence on society. We have immigrants, drugs and gangs and yet we also have a lower crime rate, our streets are relatively straight and we have a lower percentage of our population in prision. I doubt that Canada has even as high an ingrain cultural identify as the US. Being a religious society does not make the States a safer place nor can you blame your country ills on atheists or gays, we have a higher percentage of non religious, our religious people tend not to be fundamentalist and ssm has been legal since 2005 nation wide. Atheists and gays should not be a scapegoat for the problems in your society. I could list a bunch of factors that I think do lead to your higher crime and imprison rates but this is not the correct forum for it. But it certainly is not that gays cannot be discriminated or that school kids are not forced to list to other people's prayers
A Canadian can go to jail in the States as well for bringing in their prescription medication. Any info on which medications are illegal in Japan.
Oh please, they are as transplarent as tissue paper. Their websites as links to a whole slew of anti-Christian commentary which have nothing to do with legal battles. Funny that I don't see them attacking other religions. Just take a look at this recent "news" article on their site:
Now please tell me how reporting that a Christian man behaved like a hypocrite as ANYTHING to do with legal battles.
Anyways.... Are they not allowed to post about things other than their legal battles? Are they not allowed to have a say? What about the Christian sites that post things that have nothing to do with Christianity? Should they not be able to do so? Or are they exempt from your "You can only post things that are about exactly what you do" nonsense?
As far as the article, Hugh Freeze is a sleaze, and everyone who lived in Memphis while he was there (I was one of those people) know it. He rode the back of Michael Oher and leveraged his success to get to the college ranks. We all knew his Christian persona was put on, and that he was nothing more than a money grubbing jerk. He is certainly a hypocrite.
Regardless, they can post about things other than their legal battles. Surely you aren't saying otherwise?
Also, no one is trying to "destroy Christianity", unless you count them trying to stop the bias TOWARDS Christianity, which would just mean you think you guys should get special treatment, which would open a whole 'nother can of worms.
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) equality in gender rights, in reducing homophobia, in promoting animal rights, in penal codes and punishment systems which avoid the ridiculously uncivilized eye-for-an-eye and seek to rehabilitate and. Also, unlike the death penalty handed out to entire cities casually in the Bible, most modern societies in developed countries have abolished the death penalty for any reason, realizing it is barbaric. 