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Well ... Ham estimated 1.2 million visitors per year, a government study thought about half that, and another independent analysis suggested 1.4 to 2.2 million per year. That latter estimate was based on questionable assumptions such as that 4 out of 5 Americans believe Noah's Ark really existed, which would maximize the "universe" of interested potential visitors.
I think we can afford to wait and see what actually happens. I don't know that I'd be terribly surprised if it succeeded or if it flopped. So much depends on how they market it, how they run it, and the fickle whims of the buying public. But it is fair to say that the level of interest in the first few days, the mostly empty ticket windows and parking lots, and the ridiculous entrance fees do not bode well.
The misogynistic aspects of it, and of most religions in general, are actually my biggest problem with scriptures and religions. I was raised by my mother and two older sisters, and I have the honor and privilege of having an incredible wife (married 20 years tomorrow!) and two amazing daughters. I have a deep and profound admiration for women.
It sickens me that so much of religion seems predicated on treatment of women as second class citizens, or their marginalization. On guilt, blame, shame. And I can't apologize for those things in The Bible. It's grievous, but unfortunately part and parcel of many biblical texts.
Wrath, anger, genocide, war, slavery, torture, etc. are all also found in no small measure within The Bible.
However, for all its good AND ills, we cannot today envision what the Western World would be like divorced from the influence of Christianity and Christian thought. Who knows, it might be a better place, but for all the negative and horrible things Christianity (and most other religions) have been the cause of, The Bible has had an immeasurable impact on our culture and in the arts. I don't have to be a believer to be moved by paintings of the masters, philosophical writings of Christian thinkers, mystics, poets, or the religiously-inspired music of so many composers.
While much is of what Jesus allegedly said isn't necessarily original to Jesus, and I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (many early Christian sects didn't) I find much of the Gospels very touching. The message of sharing, forgiveness, acceptance, sacrifice and redemption is wonderful, even if I disbelieve in the historical accuracy of much of them.
I also enjoy Psalms a great deal. The Psalms are like love poetry to God.
Even stories I consider myth and legend--the Garden of Eden, the ark, the parables, and so on--are compelling and instructive to me in their symbolism.
Much of the horrific stuff in The Bible just reads like action-adventure to me.
I certainly roll my eyes at many passages in The Bible, but overall it s a unique, unparalleled work of literature.
What I find interesting is that some people see one or two instances of something they perceive as "bad" in the Bible, take a magnifying glass to it or a microscope and actually believe this is ALL the Bible. Such people just can't take a few steps back and see the whole forest. All they can see is that pesky mosquito and complain and complain all about that while missing all the beauty of the flowers, song birds, blue skies, etc. It is like people who complain about the Ark Park. All they can do is concentrate on one negative aspect of it (which is common for atheists and unbelievers) rather than seeing all the good that comes of it. Maybe they'd be happier with a Charles Manson park or something macabre?
Well ... Ham estimated 1.2 million visitors per year, a government study thought about half that, and another independent analysis suggested 1.4 to 2.2 million per year. That latter estimate was based on questionable assumptions such as that 4 out of 5 Americans believe Noah's Ark really existed, which would maximize the "universe" of interested potential visitors.
I think we can afford to wait and see what actually happens. I don't know that I'd be terribly surprised if it succeeded or if it flopped. So much depends on how they market it, how they run it, and the fickle whims of the buying public. But it is fair to say that the level of interest in the first few days, the mostly empty ticket windows and parking lots, and the ridiculous entrance fees do not bode well.
Maybe atheists should visit it to learn the truth about Noah's ark and flood. Then they could visit the Creation museum to learn more? Just a thought. What else would you do with your time off?
What I find interesting is that some people see one or two instances of something they perceive as "bad" in the Bible, take a magnifying glass to it or a microscope and actually believe this is ALL the Bible. Such people just can't take a few steps back and see the whole forest. All they can see is that pesky mosquito and complain and complain all about that while missing all the beauty of the flowers, song birds, blue skies, etc. It is like people who complain about the Ark Park. All they can do is concentrate on one negative aspect of it (which is common for atheists and unbelievers) rather than seeing all the good that comes of it. Maybe they'd be happier with a Charles Manson park or something macabre?
Eusebius, you and I would typically disagree on most things relating to your religion, but here I do agree with you to an extent on some of your points.
I would say, though, it is not just nonbelievers and non-Christians who behave this way. "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, " just like hypocrisy, hatred, prejudice, militantism, etc. are all human traits. They (and others) are not exclusive to any one group, nor are all members of any one group guilty of all these things.
Most Muslims are not terrorists.
The KKK considers itself a Christian organization. Obviously this does not mean all Christians are in the KKK or share their ideology. The converse is true, I have no doubt.
Just for examples.
No, within groups (religious and secular alike) there is often a minority who, because of their extremism, tend to be the most vocal, the most radical, the ones who make the headlines.
I have read The Bible throughout my life, and still do. It is true that it is neither objectively "all bad or all good." I do not share what I reckon is your belief that The Bible is "THE WORD OF GOD" but rather it is a collection of works written over thousands of years by people who yearned for, and thought of, what god would be. I see these books as attempts to come closer to god, to in some way see eye to eye with god. (I don't capitalize "god" not out of disrespect, but because it is really a generic term for a deity and not a name such as Yahweh, Odin, Astarte, Vishnu, etc.)
As I said, I don't believe there has ever been as profound an outpouring of the human soul (to put it is such terms) than what can be found in The Bible.
I don't wish to start another dead-horse-beating argument on this subject, but I do think the books of The Bible are human in origin (even if inspired by thoughts of god), I don't consider it divine and I do think it is self-referentially contradictory in parts. There are passages--often lengthy ones--that do little for me (the genealogies in Genesis, for example) and there are parts not only depicting, but extolling the virtues of some very (to me) evil, awful tortures and punishments, slavery, etc.
But yes, to focus on these things is to lose sight of what I really do find so often beautiful and moving and rich. I am particularly fond of the KJV, just because of the poetry of it. But it's not always just the language, but the stories, the ideas, that are so wondrous to me. (I also acknowledge that The Bible does contain some history, to be sure. I just do not consider it inerrant nor a 100% valid historical source.)
And I do think there are people who are much more militant than I in their nonbelief. I don't see the point in that. People should be free to believe in and worship in whatever they wish, as long as they don't impinge on the rights of others or harm others. If someone tried to outlaw a religion, I would be the first in the streets to fight alongside my brothers and sisters who do belong to this or that faith.
I do find it unfortunate that people may learn of or read something in The Bible that is, to them, negative or off-putting and so they discard it all, thinking there could be nothing of worth in it to them. Or who feel that, just because they are not a Christian themselves, they'd get nothing out of it. Because there is much worth and wisdom in there.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Maybe atheists should visit it to learn the truth about Noah's ark and flood. Then they could visit the Creation museum to learn more? Just a thought. What else would you do with your time off?
I have one of those "Creative Science Museums" four blocks from my doorstep. Not going to pay $$$ to have fairy tales be told. The thing is a joke around town, and it rarely gets visitors. Yet the antique tool museum our historical society just opened is visited by hundreds every week, and it is literally right next door. Don't forget, we are a very small village of 350 people in the middle of nowhere. Like the Ark Encounter. Oh, and our historical society got NO public funding.
What I find interesting is that some people see one or two instances of something they perceive as "bad" in the Bible, take a magnifying glass to it or a microscope and actually believe this is ALL the Bible. Such people just can't take a few steps back and see the whole forest. All they can see is that pesky mosquito and complain and complain all about that while missing all the beauty of the flowers, song birds, blue skies, etc. It is like people who complain about the Ark Park. All they can do is concentrate on one negative aspect of it (which is common for atheists and unbelievers) rather than seeing all the good that comes of it. Maybe they'd be happier with a Charles Manson park or something macabre?
Hmm. What I find interesting is that some people can read tales of "God" committing genocide and ordering people to do the same, yet perceive him as "good". And excuse it by saying "well, it was just one or two instances", as if it were a matter of no consequence. Genocide is evil, not good.
The misogynistic aspects of it, and of most religions in general, are actually my biggest problem with scriptures and religions. I was raised by my mother and two older sisters, and I have the honor and privilege of having an incredible wife (married 20 years tomorrow!) and two amazing daughters. I have a deep and profound admiration for women.
It sickens me that so much of religion seems predicated on treatment of women as second class citizens, or their marginalization. On guilt, blame, shame. And I can't apologize for those things in The Bible. It's grievous, but unfortunately part and parcel of many biblical texts.
Wrath, anger, genocide, war, slavery, torture, etc. are all also found in no small measure within The Bible.
However, for all its good AND ills, we cannot today envision what the Western World would be like divorced from the influence of Christianity and Christian thought. Who knows, it might be a better place, but for all the negative and horrible things Christianity (and most other religions) have been the cause of, The Bible has had an immeasurable impact on our culture and in the arts. I don't have to be a believer to be moved by paintings of the masters, philosophical writings of Christian thinkers, mystics, poets, or the religiously-inspired music of so many composers.
While much is of what Jesus allegedly said isn't necessarily original to Jesus, and I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (many early Christian sects didn't) I find much of the Gospels very touching. The message of sharing, forgiveness, acceptance, sacrifice and redemption is wonderful, even if I disbelieve in the historical accuracy of much of them.
I also enjoy Psalms a great deal. The Psalms are like love poetry to God.
Even stories I consider myth and legend--the Garden of Eden, the ark, the parables, and so on--are compelling and instructive to me in their symbolism.
Much of the horrific stuff in The Bible just reads like action-adventure to me.
I certainly roll my eyes at many passages in The Bible, but overall it s a unique, unparalleled work of literature.
Thank you for answering. I appreciate it, even though I do not agree.
What I find interesting is that some people see one or two instances of something they perceive as "bad" in the Bible, take a magnifying glass to it or a microscope and actually believe this is ALL the Bible. Such people just can't take a few steps back and see the whole forest. All they can see is that pesky mosquito and complain and complain all about that while missing all the beauty of the flowers, song birds, blue skies, etc. It is like people who complain about the Ark Park. All they can do is concentrate on one negative aspect of it (which is common for atheists and unbelievers) rather than seeing all the good that comes of it. Maybe they'd be happier with a Charles Manson park or something macabre?
Funny thing is if the Bible only contained positive stories about Israel and their heroes then the same skeptics and atheists would be here claiming that this is evidence that the Bible is a work of fiction. The Bible doesn't lie. Man has consistently done acts of war and violence and the Bible honestly reports it as it really happened.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Funny thing is if the Bible only contained positive stories about Israel and their heroes then the same skeptics and atheists would be here claiming that this is evidence that the Bible is a work of fiction. The Bible doesn't lie. Man has consistently done acts of war and violence and the Bible honestly reports it as it really happened.
So the bible must be telling the truth why it is OK to keep slaves, and why people should be stoned, and why children should be killed by their parents etc. etc.
I can get better moral guidance from Grimm Fairy Tales.
But then those originated from pagans, ones not influenced by a god of terror that you worship.
Funny thing is if the Bible only contained positive stories about Israel and their heroes then the same skeptics and atheists would be here claiming that this is evidence that the Bible is a work of fiction. The Bible doesn't lie. Man has consistently done acts of war and violence and the Bible honestly reports it as it really happened.
I don't disbelieve in "God" because the Bible stories are so awful. I disbelieve in "God" because there is no evidence. I disbelieve the Bible is true because it doesn't make any sense. It is full of contradictions and errors, and a simple comparison between what it claims to be true (God loves everyone) and reality (innocent children dying of hunger) do not match.
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