Ken Ham's Opening Day at the Ark. #FAIL only 4000 show up. (paradise, soul)
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You again are making the mistake to think that more people = truth. So what if the biggest denomination accepts it? They supposedly think God spoke and created the universe, but that he had to use the cruel process of evolution? Yeah...that makes sense.
Exactly. Funny that is a logical fallacy that atheists love to use against Christians. But they have no problem doing it themselves. Hypocrites.
Don't throw that word around too quickly, Jeff -- I see that same logic used by Christians against atheists, too. Truth is, both sides of the 'religion vs. secularism' debate occasionally demonstrate a certain level of hypocrisy, particularly when the conflict is over 'who's opinion is right'.
Indeed? Where? I hope you are not confusing the unvalidated beliefs of millions of followers with in informed concensus of the great majority of scientists based on the persuasive evidence.
Appeal to numbers is a fallacy. Appeal to verified evidence is not,
The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m).
I was kind of curious about this, so I did some investigating. As always, I'll ask someone here to verify my math and correct my inevitable errors.
The Ark, according to the Bible, is made of 'gopherwood', a material that is never precisely identified. There are a few possibilities (pine, cedar, fir, teak, cypress and sandalwood, among others). For the purposes of this examination, I'll assume that 'gopherwood' refers to pine, but I'll also examine the widely-preferred translation of 'cypress'.
Since the translation of 'gopherwood' is uncertain (as we have seen), and since there are several varieties of pine and cypress, I'm going to arbitrarily select the Lodgepole pine and the Mediterranean cypress as the mysterious 'gopherwood'.
According to http://www.wood-database.com/, the Mediterranean Cypress has a modulus of rupture (that is, its strength before breaking) of 6,460 lbf/in2 (44.6 MPa). The Lodgepole pine is a bit stronger, clocking in at 9,400 lbf/in2 (64.8 MPa).
When looking at an average big wave, each cubic meter of water weighs about 1 ton. If the wave is about 10 ft tall and the lip (top) of the wave is about 20 ft long, the wave itself weighs about 410 tons, which is equal to about 315 small cars.
Since Dr. Hong doesn't specify how long the wave is, I'll assume a 200-foot-long wave to make the calculations easier on my brain. A 100-foot by 200-foot wave is approximately 30 meters by 60 meters, giving us an approximate total size of 1,800 meters.
Going by the data provided in the Huffington Post article and its attached video, the wave would weigh approximately 1,800 tons, or about 3,600,000 US pounds (4,032,000 Imperial pounds, if anyone's keeping score).
Neither Lodgepole pine or Mediterranean cypress (nor, in fact, any wood that I'm aware of) can withstand that much weight, never mind that much weight traveling at any significant speed.
If the Ark were broadsided by that much water, nothing short of divine intervention could save it.
Last edited by FredNotBob; 08-13-2017 at 04:08 AM..
Don't throw that word around too quickly, Jeff -- I see that same logic used by Christians against atheists, too. Truth is, both sides of the 'religion vs. secularism' debate occasionally demonstrate a certain level of hypocrisy, particularly when the conflict is over 'who's opinion is right'.
As long as we are having discussions with people, we will see them at least occasionally commit logical fallacies.
As long as we are having discussions with people, we will see them at least occasionally commit logical fallacies.
Emotional reasoning alert:
What do you think about God destroying all those people and all those animals? When I was a kid I identified with "the wicked" because I knew I was more like "worldly" people than the ones inside my group. "Wicked" people are still people. They can still have love for their families and feel pain and fear. It boggels my mind that so many people relate to Noah when there was only 8 that survived out of all humanity. Why do people assume they are part of the 8 and not part of the many? Do you ever think how it must have felt to be one of those people watching the flood waters come down, worried about your wife, children, parents, sibling as well as yourself? Don't you think the animals felt fear? Why would God do that? This scripture was quoted a lot:
Luke 17
…26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28It was the same in the days of Lot: People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.…
What exactly was their crime? Being self absorbed? Does that merit what was done to them? The Ark exhibit is grotesque to me just like if we erected monuments of praise to other types of genocide.
What do you think about God destroying all those people and all those animals? When I was a kid I identified with "the wicked" because I knew I was more like "worldly" people than the ones inside my group. "Wicked" people are still people. They can still have love for their families and feel pain and fear. It boggels my mind that so many people relate to Noah when there was only 8 that survived out of all humanity. Why do people assume they are part of the 8 and not part of the many? Do you ever think how it must have felt to be one of those people watching the flood waters come down, worried about your wife, children, parents, sibling as well as yourself? Don't you think the animals felt fear? Why would God do that? This scripture was quoted a lot:
Luke 17
…26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28It was the same in the days of Lot: People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.…
What exactly was their crime? Being self absorbed? Does that merit what was done to them? The Ark exhibit is grotesque to me just like if we erected monuments of praise to other types of genocide.
Good point. It's a giant, wooden Holocaust exhibit.
Weren't you one of them that was saying since most scientists believe one way, it must be true?
No I don't think I said that and if I did I would have been wrong. What was my intention, and i don't feel like going back to read my actual words, was that it is not very honest for creationists to claim that scientists back them when 99.85% of scientists in fact deny creationism. If creationists stated that there are some scientists that do back them fine. And then they go off accusing those 99.85% of scientists of not accepting creationism due to their bias against Christians. I hope you can understand the distinction .
If 0.15% of Christians support the killing of gays and I stated that the killing of gays is supported by Christians except for those who are biased in their beliefs, or are cowards would I be anywhere near being either honest or accurate? Jeff dismissed 99.85% of life and earth scientists because he says they are dishonest, afraid of being mocked or bias against Christians. I used the numbers to argue against one the absurdity of accusing thousands of professionals of being bias without even knowing how many are Christians and two the idea that if you can find a few scientists that agrees with your positiin, then your position is not only correct but scientific.
Please don't follow Jeff's practice of misrepresenting what someway says as a means to feel persecuted or in order to attack us for what we don't actually believe in or stated. To date debating you on these subjects is much more interesting and less frustrating than debating with Jeff because you argue against what we believe or posted rather than making up what we believe in or have posted. Please keep up your own style. If you thought I said that because most scientists accept evolution it must be true than either my writing or your reading is to blame. If it was how I posted then I do apologize as numbers means it must be true was not my intention.
What do you think about God destroying all those people and all those animals? When I was a kid I identified with "the wicked" because I knew I was more like "worldly" people than the ones inside my group. "Wicked" people are still people. They can still have love for their families and feel pain and fear. It boggels my mind that so many people relate to Noah when there was only 8 that survived out of all humanity. Why do people assume they are part of the 8 and not part of the many? Do you ever think how it must have felt to be one of those people watching the flood waters come down, worried about your wife, children, parents, sibling as well as yourself? Don't you think the animals felt fear? Why would God do that? This scripture was quoted a lot:
Luke 17
…26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28It was the same in the days of Lot: People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.…
What exactly was their crime? Being self absorbed? Does that merit what was done to them? The Ark exhibit is grotesque to me just like if we erected monuments of praise to other types of genocide.
That's a powerful point, L8. I hadn't looked at it like that, but I think you're absolutely correct.
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