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How big would the population grow from 8 people including two old ones in just 339 years. That population would now have to be large enough for one pair for each language at the minimum.
This rabbi says that at the high end, 8 people would have close to 1 million people in that time:
No, actually trully reasonable, rational people do in fact realize the reality of the world-wide flood in Noah's day and we have the historic account in the Bible to back up that claim. You, on the other hand, only have your flippant remarks. Even Jesus and other writers of the Bible knew it was a real event.
I didn't think of my remarks as "flippant" or at least didn't intend them to be.
Are you asserting that it is unreasonable and irrational for people to not view the story of Noah and the ark as laid down in The Book of Genesis as 100% true and historically accurate? Seriously--is that your assertion?
Do you feel MOST people (even just within members of the Christian faith) share your view that this is so?
Certainly it may well be true that many Jews of Jesus' time thought of the flood of Genesis as a real account.
Many ancient Greeks believed in the Seven Labors of Hercules, and believed Zeus tossed lightning bolts from Mount Olympus. Many of them believed fully in these gods and legends, which also were written down and passed on. Does this also then mean that these gods and these legends were true?
The fact is, there is no more reason for you or anyone else to make the claim that ONLY in the Judeo-Christian scriptures are the stories literally true (as opposed to allegorical/mythical) and the deity actually real than there is to say the same of the Greco-Roman gods and legends, the Norse gods, Hopi Indian myths, legends and gods from Hinduism, etc., etc. There simply isn't any reason other than you happen to believe in one and not the others. Had you been born on the Indian subcontinent you'd very likely be saying the same sorts of things you say about Yahweh and Jesus and the stories of the Bible, but you'd be saying them about Vishnu and the Baghavad-Gita.
Incidentally, the myths and legends of all these cultures, and more, are very interesting and often contain a lot of wisdom and beauty. The fact they (like so many Judeo-Christian stories) are myths doesn't make them any less "true" or important.
Regrettably, since the ark is the ultimate white elephant (who is going to be in the market for a slightly used ark??) one possible scenario is for some other operator to come in and scoop it up for pennies on the dollar and try to reboot without all the debt, possibly adding some other attractions along with it or something.
Maybe an Indian Tribal Council can buy it and turn it into a Noah's Ark themed gambling casino?
8 People to repopulate the Earth, that's a pretty shallow gene pool. I wonder how Ken Ham addresses that.
Frankly, he's a prime example of a shallow gene pool.
Am I right folks? Wocka, wocka!
Eh, that was a cheap shot.
Actually, I may very well be very wrong, but I don't believe Ham believes what he is peddling. Yeah, I'm an old cynic, but I think he just thought it was his way of making a buck and getting some press.
I don't think most televangelsists believe what they preach either. Just out to scam money.
No, actually trully reasonable, rational people do in fact realize the reality of the world-wide flood in Noah's day and we have the historic account in the Bible to back up that claim. You, on the other hand, only have your flippant remarks. Even Jesus and other writers of the Bible knew it was a real event.
I'm not trying to be snarky or disrespectful, but can you answer a question for me? If the whole world is covered with water and Noah's Ark is afloat looking for a piece of dry land to dock ... why did it end up on Mount Ararat in Turkey? I mean there are hundreds of higher peaks in the world - like Mount Everest or even Mount McKinley.
Note - the gods of Greek mythology lived on Mount Olympus, not some higher, more remote peak, as well.
Everything in the bible takes place in the Middle East: Egypt, Judea, Mesopotamia, Syria, Turkey. No mention of ancient Siamese people or Australian aborigines or Clovis proto-Indians in North America or Bushmen in the Kalahari of South Africa or even Druids in old Britain. No, we only read about the same tribes - Cana'anites, Philistines, Israelites, Egyptians, Moabites, Edomites, Chaldeans.
This fable (the Ark I mean) has more holes in it than the TITANIC after it's Iceberg Encounter.
Originally Posted by Griffis
Actually, as has been pointed out many times, it's because any reasonable, rational person realizes the tale of Noah's ark is allegorical. Symbolic. Mythical. In part because it couldn't possibly have happened the way The Bible depicts it. Even large numbers of Christians are aware of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
I didn't think of my remarks as "flippant" or at least didn't intend them to be.
Are you asserting that it is unreasonable and irrational for people to not view the story of Noah and the ark as laid down in The Book of Genesis as 100% true and historically accurate? Seriously--is that your assertion?
Do you feel MOST people (even just within members of the Christian faith) share your view that this is so?
That is a poor argument to suggest that if reasonable and rational people believe Noah's ark to be allegorical then that bodes well for your argument. But it is a lapse in logic to suggest so. That is why I rejoined with a similar tact that such ones also believe Noah's ark to be historically factual. Since both sets are reasonable and rational and both believe differently, we cannot settle it by using ad hominum arguments.
Quote:
Certainly it may well be true that many Jews of Jesus' time thought of the flood of Genesis as a real account.
Many ancient Greeks believed in the Seven Labors of Hercules, and believed Zeus tossed lightning bolts from Mount Olympus. Many of them believed fully in these gods and legends, which also were written down and passed on. Does this also then mean that these gods and these legends were true?
The fact is, there is no more reason for you or anyone else to make the claim that ONLY in the Judeo-Christian scriptures are the stories literally true (as opposed to allegorical/mythical) and the deity actually real than there is to say the same of the Greco-Roman gods and legends, the Norse gods, Hopi Indian myths, legends and gods from Hinduism, etc., etc. There simply isn't any reason other than you happen to believe in one and not the others. Had you been born on the Indian subcontinent you'd very likely be saying the same sorts of things you say about Yahweh and Jesus and the stories of the Bible, but you'd be saying them about Vishnu and the Baghavad-Gita.
Incidentally, the myths and legends of all these cultures, and more, are very interesting and often contain a lot of wisdom and beauty. The fact they (like so many Judeo-Christian stories) are myths doesn't make them any less "true" or important.
While God was letting the nations go their own way in darkness (think of the Greek gods) He was revealing Himself to the line of the Messiah prior to His arrival. And so it is improper to argue that if the Greeks believed in Zeus and were wrong that therefore the line of the Messiah to whom God revealed Himself to must also be wrong in their divine records of such meetings between them and God/Yahweh/Creator of the heavens and earth, the Who is, Who was and Who is to come One.
And yes there is in fact more reason for me to believe Zeus or Aphrodite are not real but Yahweh is. Historic reasons to boot.
I believe there are stories in ancient Hindu literature that were historically true. I believe in ancient days they did have wonder weapons.
The problem with calling the historic flood of Noah's day a myth is to say all the other writers of the historic autographs of the Bible got it wrong including Jesus Christ, who never lied. He took the flood and ark as literal therefore it is. I realize that is circular reasoning but, it is better than others have to say it is just a myth because they say it is a myth therefore it is a myth. Dig?
But now you've made me go way off the main topic of the thread. Should I delete all the above? Should we just be private messaging concerning these things? Should we start our own thread. How do you suggest we continue if that is what you want to do. To continue on in this thread is not proper.
I'm not trying to be snarky or disrespectful, but can you answer a question for me? If the whole world is covered with water and Noah's Ark is afloat looking for a piece of dry land to dock ... why did it end up on Mount Ararat in Turkey? I mean there are hundreds of higher peaks in the world - like Mount Everest or even Mount McKinley.
The Bible doesn't say it ended up on Mount Ararat.
Genesis 8:4 says Mountains of Ararat and the Hebrew could be "hills of Ararat." That is a huge area of land.
No, not at all. I don't have any vomit to spew, just love and an outstretched hand of peace.
So what do you think of Ken Ham's Ark?
Thank you. That is a true reflection of what many believe Christ to be like. Peace be with you also.
As for Ken Ham's Ark, I think he truly believes in his heart he is following what he believes to be true. I also believe if Ham was born in another country or in another time, he would hold a totally different set of beliefs and he would defiantly defend them the same way he does his YEC beliefs.
I have no emotional or religious dogma-based stake in Noah's Ark theme park. I take it as it is. It is just one of many beliefs held by humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
How big would the population grow from 8 people including two old ones in just 339 years. That population would now have to be large enough for one pair for each language at the minimum.
Yeah, I have to agree. I guess being cooped up in the ark made them breed like rabbits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park
Maybe an Indian Tribal Council can buy it and turn it into a Noah's Ark themed gambling casino?
LOL! Never say never. Our local horse racing venue in OK City has become a tribally owned casino/horse racing venue. The Indian casino saved their scalps! (Excuse the pun)
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I guess being cooped up in the ark made them breed like rabbits. 
