Ken Ham's Opening Day at the Ark. #FAIL only 4000 show up. (reject, theories)
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Likewise, any limitation you put on the topic of God is merely a colloquialism invented by scientists. The fact is, you really don't know HOW the universe started, or how life began, but you are unwilling to consider all options.
First off science deals in facts, logic, math, and data not folksy sayings.
Correct: I do not KNOW how everything started.
Correct: I do not KNOW how life started.
Incorrect: I am willing to consider any and all options. And when those options conflict with the known attributes of reality they are discarded as false. Just because I don't buy it doesn't mean I am incapable of considering it.
For instance: In the genesis account, plants come before the creation of the sun. Since (via science) we know that plants need sunlight to perform photosynthesis and grow, we can safely say that the genesis creation account is false. This is an example of CONSIDERING an option, and then REJECTING that option because it clashes with reality.
First off science deals in facts, logic, math, and data not folksy sayings.
Correct: I do not KNOW how everything started.
Correct: I do not KNOW how life started.
Incorrect: I am willing to consider any and all options. And when those options conflict with the known attributes of reality they are discarded as false. Just because I don't buy it doesn't mean I am incapable of considering it.
Except for things like abiogenesis.
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For instance: In the genesis account, plants come before the creation of the sun. Since (via science) we know that plants need sunlight to perform photosynthesis and grow, we can safely say that the genesis creation account is false.
If God can speak and create the universe, he can sustain plant life for a few days.
But I do find it interesting that you write off the Genesis account so quickly and you ignore the GAPING logical holes in the theory of abiogenesis.
If God can speak and create the universe, he can sustain plant life for a few days.
But I do find it interesting that you write off the Genesis account so quickly and you ignore the GAPING logical holes in the theory of abiogenesis.
Except WHAT for things like abiogenesis? I do not understand this response in the context of my reply.
If God can speak and create the universe then he can do literally anything. Now provide me with evidence that there is such a thing as Yaweh instead of presupposing it as part of your argument.
Abiogenesis is a hypothesis not a theory, now that I have helped you understand this can I assume you wont make the same mistake in the future?
Can you explain to me what the gaping logical holes in abiogenesis are. Looking for hard facts/data/logic not some folk saying please.
Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 07-15-2016 at 11:47 AM..
Actually, that would be THE very definition of biblical literalists. To a "T."
On the other hand, you make claims like this all the time, and then have several people respond to you showing what you claim plainly isn't true (happened several times already today) and then turn around and make the same baseless claim.
Nope, I don't claim to know everything and can keep an open mind. I have a hunger for the truth. But certainly not the "truth" running through the filter of God hating atheists.
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Originally Posted by Griffis
In fact, you HAVE said the exact same things you are accusing others of (in what I quoted above) over and over. And when I or anyone else points out this is hypocritical of you, that is met with something along the lines of "You just don't like that I know the truth! Sure, call my a hypocrite--insults are all you have! that's how intolerant you god-haters are" or some other pathetic fluff.
Typical rude garbage from you. Next.
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Originally Posted by Griffis
I don't recall any such basely insulting insulting comments that weren't at least accompanied by explanations of how etymology and language-study works, what it has uncovered, as well as what it has not, and why. I responded in such a way (minus insults) myself.
How about being a true intellectual person and refrain from the crutch of insults? You actually said I have a kindergarten level intelligence. I'm really sick of snide comments like that which serve ZERO purpose beyond trying to antagonize me. When you throw that crap at me, I have ZERO reason to take any of your arrogant replies seriously. The only big counterargument I recall from you was bring out the old Troy example. WOW, you got ONE example of a myth referencing a real life city and try to compare that against hundreds of archaeological finds that support the Bible. So impressive!!
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Originally Posted by Griffis
I believe you are just so ingrained in your biases and so hell-bent on being right at the exclusion of any and all other possibilities, to your very shallow world view and very, very weak faith, that anything you hear that might run counter to those things, no matter how reasoned, just sounds to you like "Blah blah blah you're stupid! Blah blah blah there's no god! Blah blah blah we hate believers!" and so on.
It's delusional. But that explains a lot as well.
If you had no hate or anger for believers, you wouldn't feel the need to mock and insult. It's quite revealing.
Ok where is this 100% Proof that our beliefs are fairy tales? *crickets*
There is no such thing as 100% proof. Even if you fell out of a plane there is a very small chance that you might survive...but you have been told this numerous times and yet you still come back with the same old tripe don't you? You ran out of baseless assertions a long time ago and now all you have left is to whine and grizzly like a five year old who's friends won't play with him.
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Meanwhile 89% of Americans think you are WRONG.
Yes. This is true...and it's one of the reasons that the USA lag behind every other developed nation and are a laughing stock throughout the world....but the worst part of it is....they are proud of it!
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Spiteful, condescending, mocking commentary typical so VERY VERY typical, my quest continues to find just one just one atheist who can have a friendly non-personal discussion online. Sadly, you sound exactly like all the rest.
There he goes again! BooooHooooHoooo! I'm soooo persecuted!
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But that's the attitude your ilk gives off here. You know it all, the book is closed, and anyone who dares suggest otherwise should be branded and labeled as ignorant.
No. Those that reject objective, verifiable evidence are wilfully ignorant. Ignorance can be excuses. Wilful ignorance cannot.
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I even brought up yesterday how science has failed to explained with evidence how man went from grunts and noises to complex languages. The response arrogantly was that I was stupid and ignorant. Yet no one offered proof to the contrary.
No again. Can you produce a post from anyone calling you 'stupid'. Many have called you ignorant regarding various scientific fields...and that is because you ARE ignorant in those fields. Not only ignorant but WILFULLY ignorant and that is so much worse than ignorant. So come on. Let's see a post that is referring to you as 'stupid'.
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Or you could just give me a counter argument and move on. Now you take it a step further by claiming my brain is unable to grasp basic science.
It is capable of grasping it. The problem is that you won't allow it to grasp it.
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Do you realize how arrogant and condescending that sounds?
That's what I am saying: if you paid attention, you would have seen that this "my view" is not my view at all, but the fundamentalist line of thinking that I personally find as disgusting as you do. We are really on one side in this discussion. But I do not owe anybody on here an explanation anyway, much less to a self-righteous Yank.
I paid attention to every word you wrote below in response to someone asking: "A question nobody will answer: Why couldn't a god just wave a hand and all the evil humans would vanish? Why kill the kittens, puppies, colts, calves, piglets, fledglings, baby animals of all kinds?"
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Originally Posted by Norne
I don't know if anyone already answered it, but I'll try: because all non-human natural world had been created for man to use. When God cursed Adam after the fall, he cursed the natural world together with him, so it would not be benign for man anymore, but full of dangers and requiring much labor to survive in. Do you remember what the bible says about paradise where lamb and lion would stay together? That is only possible after mankind has been saved.
So, apparently is goes this way: the natural world with all its animal species is subservient to man. When man is cursed, they are cursed too. When man must die, all those other animals must die as well.
If it's not "your view", then it seems to me that your post would reflect it vs. what you posted above in response to someone's question.
Get'em while their too young to think on their own. I guess he thinks the US Constitution does not apply to him.
First you complain about his prices. Then you call him a slime ball for offering huge discounts to children? Let's call it what it is. Pure venom for Ken Ham. This happens really to anyone who takes a public stand for Christ and the Bible. I see the exact same vitriol directed at Kirk Cameron too.
How about being a true intellectual person and refrain from the crutch of insults? You actually said I have a kindergarten level intelligence. I'm really sick of snide comments like that which serve ZERO purpose beyond trying to antagonize me. When you throw that crap at me, I have ZERO reason to take any of your arrogant replies seriously. The only big counterargument I recall from you was bring out the old Troy example. WOW, you got ONE example of a myth referencing a real life city and try to compare that against hundreds of archaeological finds that support the Bible. So impressive!!
Jeff - no one really cares about how butthurt you are.
Likewise, any limitation you put on the topic of God is merely a colloquialism invented by scientists. The fact is, you really don't know HOW the universe started, or how life began, but you are unwilling to consider all options.
I'm pretty comfortable in the understanding that neither I nor anyone else absolutely KNOWS how the universe came to be or how life began. We may never know these things. Biblical literalists are the ONLY ones who claim to. We LEARN more and acquire more knowledge when we pursue our curiosity on such subjects (this is called science) rather than point to collected ancient books by tribes of ancient desert peoples and say "Aha! This is it! the answers are all right here, no need to look further, to do so would be folly and, of course, if you follow that foolish path and uncover any information that doesn't jibe with these ancient writings by people who didn't even know what stars were or how many land masses the world contained, it's automatically wrong, and I'm covering my ears now, not listening!" (that's biblical literalism.)
I am also perfectly comfortable in considering all kinds of options and investigating or learning about a host of other possibilities.
I'm also comfortable in saying that, no, I don't really believe the accounts of creation as set forth in the Book of Genesis, just as it is written (or more accurately was, after generations of oral re-telling, then re-re-re-retranslations thereof), every jot and titter, are a 100% valid and accurate portrayal of how everything came to be. You wanna call me closed minded for that, I'm fine with that.
At least I am willing to consider that The Bible is not the one and only possibility.
I see the exact same vitriol directed at Kirk Cameron too.
Bananas!
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