Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're correct. But there is plenty of faith that in the beliefs that people hold to and call it "science". Stuff like abiogenesis, evolution, various theories on the origins of the universe, etc.
Scientific faith and religious faith are hardly comparable. Not only has science been proven correct many, many times -- something religion has never been able to accomplish -- any so-called "faith" in science rests on a foundation of provable, demonstrable, repeatable facts. The irony is that many of those facts are accepted by even the most fundamentalist of Christians.
Evolution, for instance, continues to be called a "faith" by certain believers merely because acknowledging it as a fact utterly destroys Biblical literalism.
What astounds me is that there is 6,000 years of recorded history where religious believers of all kinds thumbed their noses at reality in order to maintain a strict belief in an archaic collection of myths and legends. It has happened again and again ... and here we are in the 21st Century with people STILL doing it as if they think this staunch and misguided approach to spiritualism is somehow new.
People like Ken Ham are those who rot Christianity to the core; he doesn't even have the honesty to simply believe on faith. No, he has to actually invent another reality where science works differently -- where all of the laws of physics, astronomy, cosmology, biology, genetics ... you name it -- all obey his commands. Then he puts this junk science out there so that people who were starting to doubt Biblical literalism in favor of science could grab on to Ken Ham's bogus spiritual "life preserver" and continue to believe in Genesis while simultaneously believing that 99.5% of the world's relevant scientists all got it wrong and Ken Ham got it right.
Him and Hovind and all the rest of the apologists like them are true enemies of knowledge. At least those who simply "take it on faith" are honest in their beliefs and aren't trying to feed people excrement in order to get them to believe in Genesis word for word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I've answered the question. Abiogenesis posits that life comes from non-life. That has NEVER been observed in nature.
Since when does "what is observed in nature" have any meaning? Haven't you already determined that life came from a source that has also never been observed in nature? Tsk, tsk, tsk. I thought we were beyond "special pleading" arguments.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-15-2016 at 05:24 PM..
Reason: Added closer to first quote. (Hope it's in the right place.)
We learn that Ken Ham lied about the opening day, and these pictures prove it. He use the one for the media day/VIP one and puported it to be opening day. How very christian like of this snake oil salesman.
Since when does "what is observed in nature" have any meaning? Haven't you already determined that life came from a source that has also never been observed in nature? Tsk, tsk, tsk. I thought we were beyond "special pleading" arguments.
If you're going to make the case that abiogenesis is an actual, real process that could have resulted in life, but that a creator could NOT exist.....it's hypocritical. Neither one can be measured by the actual scientific method.
We learn that Ken Ham lied about the opening day, and these pictures prove it. He use the one for the media day/VIP one and puported it to be opening day. How very christian like of this snake oil salesman.
Gee, what were the odds? Remember that link i posted several pages back, showing that even before he built it he was lying about the projected attendance figures. This is totally in character for him, and as a resident of Kentucky, i am not the least bit surprised that he is getting away with it. You have to live here to fully understand it, but this is just the way the people who live here are used to things being done. They have been conditioned not to expect anything different.
God, i wish I was a con artist, as long as I'm living here anyway. I'd be a millionaire by the end of next month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
Hell, for free rent, I'd convert!
Yeah, but then you'd have to live inside Cupper's mind. Ever see the movie "The Cell?"
What was his lie? That atheists are a minority? Hate to break it you, but they are. A very small minority.
Oh, come on.
This reminds me of the time my mother caught me stealing cookies out of the cookie jar when i was about 4. She heard me put the lid back on the cookie jar, and came into the kitchen to bust me. I was standing there with my cheeks puffed out like a gopher, and she said, "Albert the Crocodile, what are you doing eating those cookies?" And I said, "Humph hoohies?"
How can you read the post and the link and say such a thing?
If you're going to make the case that abiogenesis is an actual, real process that could have resulted in life, but that a creator could NOT exist.....it's hypocritical. Neither one can be measured by the actual scientific method.
Abiogensis could be shown to work in a lab changing amino acids into a life form. No one is if course able to do that at the present day but experimentation may show if it is possible or not. You make the claim that your God made the universe exactly like it says in the Bible and science days that Abiogensis is a say that life may have started and you claim that the two claims are the same. I am not sure it is scientific to make the claim that it always be impossible to create life from organic chemicals.
Does the Ark Encounter have a display showing that this is impossible. I did see where there is a display dismissing climate change. I guess the theme park is based on Hamm's personal views of science and not just the flood story, unless I am incorrect as I don't want to thread on the toes of a theologian and speak outside my expertise. Does the Bible make any claim that putting stuff in the atmosphere will never affect that atmosphere? How about putting stuff in water, does it affect the water?
To all, other than the initial report where there lots of reviews of the Ark and I'd so will they affect it positively or negatively?
Abiogensis could be shown to work in a lab changing amino acids into a life form. No one is if course able to do that at the present day but experimentation may show if it is possible or not. You make the claim that your God made the universe exactly like it says in the Bible and science days that Abiogensis is a say that life may have started and you claim that the two claims are the same. I am not sure it is scientific to make the claim that it always be impossible to create life from organic chemicals.
Does the Ark Encounter have a display showing that this is impossible. I did see where there is a display dismissing climate change. I guess the theme park is based on Hamm's personal views of science and not just the flood story, unless I am incorrect as I don't want to thread on the toes of a theologian and speak outside my expertise. Does the Bible make any claim that putting stuff in the atmosphere will never affect that atmosphere? How about putting stuff in water, does it affect the water?
To all, other than the initial report where there lots of reviews of the Ark and I'd so will they affect it positively or negatively?
If it is discovered, it will somehow eventually be accommodated in the hermeneutical approach by all but the most fundamental. They won't have a choice. Accommodate or wither on the vine. The same thing happened when it was shown unequivocally that the Earth does move, and that it moves around the sun, the ancient age of the Earth, or when exoplanets were discovered (Morris definitely didn't see that one coming - D'oh!!) and even evolution. It is just a prediction, nothing more, but that does seem to be how these things work out.
And if a million showed up, no doubt you would call it a failure. I remember when I posted some time ago how Greg Laurie had an audience of over 80,000 people come to hisevent. The response from your camp? Oh so what, that's nothing compared to 300 million Americans!
The truth as I see it is that you NEED the ark to be a failure. BTW, you got any figures on those weekend totals? I would be curious to know that. Funny that that Ham haters are pretty quiet on that report.
Laurie's Harvest Crusade does draw tens of thousands of people. It's also free.
Let's see...a one day adult entrance to Disneyland is $105. A one day adult entrance to Ham's ark is $40. Disneyland has multiple rides, shows and attractions included in the price of admission. Ham has plastic dinosaurs, pitiful animatronics and an additional fee for a ride on the zip line.
It will be a failure not because of what anyone wants, but because it is an overpriced walk through a giant warehouse.
BTW: Disneyland is about 10 miles from the blimp hangers which are twice the size of the Ham's ark. I've been in the blimp hangers. They are HUGE. And not nearly big enough to hold two of every animal on Earth as told in the Bible story.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-15-2016 at 05:29 PM..
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:8
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Matthew 25
Your Bible is very clear that there is a very real, literal Hell that lasts for a literal
eternity, where the wicked will be tormented in literal fire.
...but you say there isn't.
Matthew 13:41-42 says, "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather
out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing
of teeth.”
You say he won't.
Revelation 14:9-11 says "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud
voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or
upon his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full
strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the
presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11"And the smoke of their
torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship
the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
You say they will not.
Matthew 3:12 says, "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear
His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the
chaff with unquenchable fire."
You say he will not.
Matthew 5:22 says, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the
fiery hell." You say they will not go to a fiery Hell. Matthew 18:8-9 says, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off
and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two
hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble,
pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than
having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell. And again, you say that there is no fiery Hell.
Matthew 25:41 says, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed
ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.
You say he will not say this.
Jude 7 says, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same
way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an
example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."
You say that they are not.
Luke 16 says that the Rich Man suffered in a literal, fiery place of torment.
You say he did not.
...but you must admit that he does brighten up the day by making us laugh.
Dear Rafius, if you would like to take this over to the Christian message board or start a new thread on this matter here, that would be fine too. Let me know what you want to do. You can pm me if you want. I can save this post of yours and we can re-post it in our own thread if you want.
This is the Opening Post, setting the topic for the thread:
Does anybody have anything to say that is relevant to the OP?
Mea Culpa. I did not see your post reminding us to stay on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Dear Rafius, if you would like to take this over to the Christian message board or start a new thread on this matter here, that would be fine too. Let me know what you want to do. You can pm me if you want. I can save this post of yours and we can re-post it in our own thread if you want.
Thanks.
Eubie, he was responding to my post. Thank you for reminding everyone to not spew Christian crap on this thread.
Back to the topic at hand.
Re the opening of the ark. I believe most of the posts here are aimed at challenging Christians to simply look at the Ark Experience without blind faith as to the story of the ark itself. At this point, the Christians just shut down all logical and critical thinking and just resort to " the Bible tells me so" mantra.
Have a good weekend Griffis. My faith in my crystal ball sees a lock in the future of this thread.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
