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Why would the Ark Encounter cover the possibility that the laws of physics changed during the historic world-wide flood in Noah's day which the laws didn't change? How do you believe they changed and what is Ken Ham supposed to say if they changed?
Oh I do not but Jeff suggested it as a possibility for the fact that the sediments left by your flood contravene not only the principles of geology but the laws of physics for example gravity.
I just find it humourus all the different explanations that different people use to overcome the questions this story creates. For example you like the idea that the park shows how big the Ark was and how it was possible for it to hold all its animals and their food and yet for one pair of elephants it require the full length of the Ark by 20 feet high and 10 feet wide. That is if he used hay. Brontosaurs would have needed much more (and I know that is no longer the correct taxonomic name)
...For example you like the idea that the park shows how big the Ark was and how it was possible for it to hold all its animals and their food and yet for one pair of elephants it require the full length of the Ark by 20 feet high and 10 feet wide.
Maybe they kept them on diet pills for 40 days and 40 nights?
I just mean that seems plenty long to JUST be on diet pills. I was thinking after that, maybe Noah's family relented and let 'em have a snack of some kind.
Second, there is no reason to believe that he didn't have writings and oral stories passed down to him.
I take it Ken Ham was inspired too?
Being inspired doesn't mean much. The author of Alice in Wonderland was inspired too. And there is an element of truth in that story. The dreams and halucinations of a mushroom trip. Or just a vivid crazy dream.
What I find offensive is that religious fanatics convinced the governor of one of the poorest states in the country to give $18 million in taxpayer funds to the con artist who built this park, while cutting education and health care programs for impoverished children.
The state actually tried to BLOCK any tax incentives to this attraction. The attraction then sued the state and that is the ONLY reason they got 18 million! Bottom line? If you have 100 million to spend on a theme park in KY, you will likely get the same 18 million. State tourism tax credits are a "given" to anyone willing to invest 100 million in the state.
Instead, what you are doing here is perpetuating stereotypes about a beautiful state. The "Golden Triangle" of Louisville, Lexington, NKY/Cincinnati is a MAJOR economic region of over 5 million people, a dozen or more Fortune 500 companies, pro sports and some of the best college sports in the USA, major museums and tourists attractions which draw millions of tourists apiece. The bourbon boom that is going on in this state, in its infancy, has the potential to be as big as California's wine industry! But what we have are people that perpetuate myths about KY....none of it is true.
The Ark Park is a privately funded theme park. Some folks (like me) find wax figures of Mickey at Disney JUST as offensve as wax figures of Noah or Moses or whatever characters this park has. Leave them alone! lol.
Maybe they kept them on diet pills for 40 days and 40 nights?
That's not s far off! The Juveniles argument works well enough especially if the animals were Inspired to march to the Ark. Remember it has to be God tweaking what is feasible to make it work, but outright miracles [magic wand] are not permitted (I remember even Eusebius accepted this once ) or the whole thing becomes pointless.(1) Thus Migrating instinct was cautiously proposed as the thing that God Tweaked to get the birds to the Ark. Though of course he'd only need to do it to two of each pair..but you can't actually have a miracle remember. It must at least Look as though it has a natural basis. The whole thing is a delicate walk between a natural explanation that doesn't need God at all and something that is an unbelievable fairy tale unrelated to anything that we know of as Real (2).
Of course when the Cretaceous (post Flood -level in Creationist parlance) turned out to have the prints of dinosaur herds in them there was no help for it - dinosaurs had to be on the Ark, too. Problem right away as they are pretty big, in some cases. We saw the cartoon. One Brachiosaur on board, one to go...work on 2nd Ark started.
"You're gonna need a bigger Ark".
Well you can't because give or take 100 feet the measurements are set down. So you have to make the dinos smaller. Really Elephants you could just about manage but T. Rex...
Juveniles was an obvious get out and Dino eggs were suggested but then some brilliant atheists pointed out you wouldn't know which was male and which female (3). So it was back to Juveniles. Not just dinosaurs but ALLLL the critters that were in the flood levels And there Hamm's baryma come under pressure because after the flood, you can evolve all creation from a bug, a lizard and a mouse (4), and even birds with some creative "interpretation" of Dove and raven as Baryma for all bird -kind.
But the fossils are not "Baryma"- they are all the Prehistoric species pre 60 million BC and each one of those has to be represented on the Ark. Well, make them kiddy Dinos and pass as many off as you can as really All The Same Kind, but you still have a problem in catering... if only God would put them all to sleep.......
Thus Hibernation is handy as a hook to hang an Arkful of sleeping critters on, needing no feeding, doctoring or mucking out until they arrived. Of course like Migration it relates to only a tiny number of animals but, it it works for a couple, then you can sell it to the faithful as working for all. And while you are at it, have God magick food in their stomachs so you don't need to consider food storage problems, food preserving problems or postulate a food -freezedrying industry above the snowline of Ararat. And you can use this with no difficulty as it has Biblical support.
Or as good as because some ancient Bible scholar with lice in his beard said that God made food in the bellies of the infant Adam and Eve as they slept. Why the heck God would have needed to do that is a mystery, since they were made fully formed, No? But the point is it has Religious authority and (since it so damn' useful) that makes it scientifically and historically reliable and undeniable FACT. It was as near as dammittall to having animals Majicked into existence on the going down of the Flood. In view of the claimed Super evolution, you might as well go the whole "Hog -kind", except that you need a link with reality so as not to let go of the credibility -string of the Genesis -myth balloon.
(1) except..and why I haven't had a theologian of the year award nomination I can't imagine.. The Flood had to be done as a warning. It couldn't be done as a miracle but had to be an object lesson.
If so...I love this bit... why couldn't God have put the belief in Mens' minds that he had done the Flood when in fact he hadn't. The lesson was there even if the evidence wasn't.
(2) This is of course why Eusebius doesn't simply say that, if God made day and night first and then the sun and moon to sorta fit in with the day and night and give a sorta focus for all the heliotropic plants which up to then had been following a non -existent sun across the firmament...sorta, that is what happened. No, he accepts what cosmology says about the stars, moon sun planets and the rest of the whole cosmos was there before the earth was made. You just couldn't see it from earth (that is if anyone had been there to see it) because of the cloud cover.
(3) No, candle light doesn't shine through Diplodocus eggs.
(4) in a couple of thousand years - and never a word about "There just wouldn't have been enough time!"
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-18-2016 at 12:59 PM..
Reason: Editing...of course. And more Editing...
For example you like the idea that the park shows how big the Ark was and how it was possible for it to hold all its animals and their food and yet for one pair of elephants it require the full length of the Ark by 20 feet high and 10 feet wide. That is if he used hay. Brontosaurs would have needed much more (and I know that is no longer the correct taxonomic name)
I don't understand you saying "the full length of the ark by 20 feet high and 10 feet wide." How is that the full length of the ark?
if one goes by the Egyptian long cubit of 20.6 inches/cubit, the ark could have been roughly 515 feet long by 85 feet wide by 51.5 feet high.
I think Ken Ham used the Hebrew short cubit of 17.5 inches/cubit to build the Ark Encounter exhibit.
The cubit we've come to know is the average length from the tip of the middle finger to the elbow of a mature man.
It is nice though that even if we disagree on some things or even all things regarding this topic that we can remain friendly, right?
That's not s far off! The Juveniles argument works well enough especially if the animals were Inspired to march to the Ark. Remember it has to be God tweaking what is feasible to make it work, but outright miracles [magic wand] are not permitted (I remember even Eusebius accepted this once ) or the whole thing becomes pointless.(1) Thus Migrating instinct was cautiously proposed as the thing that God Tweaked to get the birds to the Ark. Though of course he'd only need to do it to two of each pair..but you can't actually have a miracle remember. It must at least Look as though it has a natural basis. The whole thing is a delicate walk between a natural explanation that doesn't need God at all and something that is a unbelievable fairy tale unrelated to anything that we know of as Real.
Of course when the Cretaceous (post Flood -level in Creationist parlance) turned ou to the pints of dinosaur herds in them there was no help for it - dinosaurs had to be on the Ark, too. Problem right away as they are pretty big, in some cases. We saw the cartoon. One Brachiosaur on board, one to go...work on 2nd Ark started.
"You're gonna need a bigger Ark".
Well you can't because give or take 100 feet the measurements are set down. So you have to make the dinos smaller. Juveniles was an obvious get out and really Elephants you could just about manage but T rex... Dino eggs were suggested but then some brilliant atheists pointed out wyou wouldn' know which was male and which female. So it was back to Juveniles. Not just dinosaurs but ALLLL the critters that were in the flood levels And there Hamm's baryma come under pressure because after the flood, you can evolve all creation from a bug, a lizard and a mouse, and even birds with some creative "interpretation" of Dove and raven as Baryma for all bird -kind.
But the fossils are not "Baryma" they are all the Prehistoric species pre 60 million BC and each one of those has to be represented on the Ark. Well, make them kiddy Dinos and pass as many off as you can as really All The Same Kind, but you still have a problem in catering... if only God would put them all to sleep.......
Thus Hibernation is handy as a hook to hang an Arkful of sleeping critters on, needing no feeding, doctoring or mucking out until they arrived. It was as near to having animals Majicked on the going down of the Flood (in view of the claimed Super evolution, you might as well go the whole "Hog -kind", except that you need a link with reality so as not to let go of the credibility -string of the Genesis -myth balloon.
Of course like Migration it relates to only a tiny number of animals but, it it works for a couple, then you can sell it to the faithful as working for all. And while you are at it, have God magick food in their stomachs so you don't need to consider food storage problems, food preserving problems or postulate a food -freezedrying industry above the snowline of Ararat. And you can use this with no difficulty as it has Biblical support.
or as good as because some ancient Bible scholar with lice in his beard said that God made food in the bellies of the infant Adam and Eve as they slept. Why the heck God would have needed to do that is a mystery, since they were made fully formed, No? But the point is it has Religious authority and (since it so damn' useful) that makes it scientifically and historically reliable and undeniable FACT.
(1) except..and why I haven't had a theologian of the year award nomination I can't imagine.. The Flood had to be done as a warning. It couldn't be done as a miracle but had to be an object lesson.
If so...I love this bit... why couldn't God have put the belief in Mens' minds that he had done the Flood when in fact he hadn't. The lesson was there even if the evidence wasn't.
God didn't need to "magick food in their stomaches." He told Noah to store so much food for all the animals and family. That's what he did. It's not magic but preparedness. As far as the animals hibernating, it is possible some of many of them did. We don't know. It is wrong to say they did or did not hibernate since neither side really knows if they did or did not.
But the important thing is that Ken Ham built a replica (at least a replica of what he thinks the ark might have looked like) and that people can see just how huge the ark was. Personally, I wish he'd have used the Egyptian long cubit which would have added 78 feet to the length of the ark.
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) or the whole thing becomes pointless.(1) Thus Migrating instinct was cautiously proposed as the thing that God Tweaked to get the birds to the Ark. Though of course he'd only need to do it to two of each pair..but you can't actually have a miracle remember. It must at least Look as though it has a natural basis. The whole thing is a delicate walk between a natural explanation that doesn't need God at all and something that is an unbelievable fairy tale unrelated to anything that we know of as Real (2).
One Brachiosaur on board, one to go...work on 2nd Ark started. 