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"Jesus called in a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth!' ......Jesus told them. 'Unwrap him and let him go!'" - John 11:43,44
Just as Jesus told the people to unwrap Lazarus, so we must obey. The "Lazrus Generation" must clean up. and renounce the works of darkness. But we must not re-wrap them in church grave clothes. We must not let the Christian Clone Factory get their hands on them. We must give them the Word and the Spirit along with proper discipling into their inheritance in Christ.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-18-2016 at 12:47 PM..
Reason: Don't use red text.
"Jesus called in a loud voice,'Lazarus, come forth!' ......Jesus told them. 'Unwrap him and let him go!'" - John 11:43,44
Just as Jesus told the people to unwrap Lazarus, so we must obey. The "Lazrus Generation" must clean up. and renounce the works of darkness. But we must not re-wrap them in church grave clothes. We must not let the Christian Clone Factory get their hands on them. We must give them the Word and the Spirit along with proper discipling into their inheritance in Christ.
Or, just follow the Golden Rule to the best of one's ability.
That'll work.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-18-2016 at 12:48 PM..
Reason: Quoted post edited.
And the story of Lazarus was not meant to be used as an allegory to refer to people today in that way.
To be honest, there are numerous ways this and other scriptures speak to individuals and through which they may be interpreted.
I understand what you say above is your personal view, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean others are automatically "wrong" or lack some special understanding or insight that you possess.
Some people may view this and other biblical accounts as allegorical and have it make a very positive impact in their lives, or inspire them to think or act in positive ways.
That's one of the great things about The Bible...and which keeps it alive. Not being snide; this is just MY opinion.
To be honest, there are numerous ways this and other scriptures speak to individuals and through which they may be interpreted.
Do you read other literature the same way? Is the science text book to be interpreted any way one would decide to? Is the speed limit sign that says 65 mph merely to be interpreted any way I decide that it "speaks to me"?
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I understand what you say above is your personal view, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean others are automatically "wrong" or lack some special understanding or insight that you possess.
It does mean that someone is wrong, though. You want to say I'm wrong? Great. Ok--that's your prerogative. But 2 mutually exclusive ideas cannot both be correct.
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Some people may view this and other biblical accounts as allegorical and have it make a very positive impact in their lives, or inspire them to think or act in positive ways.
That's one of the great things about The Bible...and which keeps it alive. Not being snide; this is just MY opinion.
That may well be true...but is it why the writer wrote it?
Yes. That is one of the basic and essential functions of literature.
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Is the science text book to be interpreted any way one would decide to? Is the speed limit sign that says 65 mph merely to be interpreted any way I decide that it "speaks to me"?
Science textbooks and speed limit signs don't = "literature" in the sense I mean (or I think you meant) other than, yes, being things you put your eyes on and read words from.
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It does mean that someone is wrong, though. You want to say I'm wrong? Great. Ok--that's your prerogative. But 2 mutually exclusive ideas cannot both be correct.
I am not saying you are wrong. I don't know that you are, though my default belief is to not take every bit of every biblical passage as 100% true and historically accurate. You know this.
I'm merely saying that others who do not feel the way you do, or who may interpret The Bible, or parts of it, differently from you, are not necessarily wrong.
Of course, if you are steadfast in your belief (and it IS, after all, only a "belief") that The Bible IS 100% historically accurate and valid (while, I guess, then claiming that the legends and holy writings of all other cultures must therefore NOT be (in your own words, it would seem to me that one would perforce imply the other) then the discussion can't really be taken further.
But again, it just confounds me that people feel so strongly about fundamentalism and literalism. I do not see the point of it. But if that is their understanding of The Bible and their view of it, they are free to feel that way. Makes no difference what I think about it.
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That may well be true...but is it why the writer wrote it?
To me, it would be groundless, presumptuous and arrogant to try to deduce the writer's (or writers') full intent.
Yes. That is one of the basic and essential functions of literature.
Science textbooks and speed limit signs don't = "literature" in the sense I mean (or I think you meant) other than, yes, being things you put your eyes on and read words from.
So you make the exception in reading comprehension for speed limit signs and science textbooks. Gotcha.
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I am not saying you are wrong. I don't know that you are, though my default belief is to not take every bit of every biblical passage as 100% true and historically accurate. You know this.
I'm merely saying that others who do not feel the way you do, or who may interpret The Bible, or parts of it, differently from you, are not necessarily wrong.
Of course, if you are steadfast in your belief (and it IS, after all, only a "belief") that The Bible IS 100% historically accurate and valid (while, I guess, then claiming that the legends and holy writings of all other cultures must therefore NOT be (in your own words, it would seem to me that one would perforce imply the other) then the discussion can't really be taken further.
But again, it just confounds me that people feel so strongly about fundamentalism and literalism. I do not see the point of it. But if that is their understanding of The Bible and their view of it, they are free to feel that way. Makes no difference what I think about it.
To me, it would be groundless, presumptuous and arrogant to try to deduce the writer's (or writers') full intent.
I get that. But if I write you a letter saying the sky is blue, would it be correct to say that the sky was green?
No matter how much it may "speak to you" to say it is, my observation of it being blue is fact. It is what I mean -- and your reinterpretation of said facts are irrelevant.
So you make the exception in reading comprehension for speed limit signs and science textbooks. Gotcha.
No, you are mischaracterizing what I said (and you know it) then trying to veer off onto another subject. I'm not sure what reading comprehension has to do with anything we were discussing.
What I said, and what I meant by what I said, is that I do tend to read literature (in this usage the academic sense of "literature" i e. not things such as nonfiction works, nonfiction textbooks, a speed limit sign, a contract of some kind, etc.) in a completely concrete way, as that would rob literature of its depth. For instance, it would not make a great deal of sense (to me, at least) to read, say, a poem about the sun in a literal way, because within the poem the sun likely is symbolic for, or functioning as an allegory for, something else. Or, it should be said, the sun in the poem and the attributes given it in the poem MAY well be viewed literally, but can also be read and interpreted in other ways.
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I get that. But if I write you a letter saying the sky is blue, would it be correct to say that the sky was green?
Well, people actually do see things in different ways. For example, you and I cannot be occupying the same exact space at the same exact time, so in a way, we are not looking at the exact same sky. The light from the part of it you are looking at doesn't hit my eyes the exact same time as if I were looking at it, etc.
I'm not trying to bog this down in semantics though--I do not think that is your meaning.
And, to refer to your last question, I guess it WOULD matter what your meaning was in the letter. Are you simply saying "no clouds today. Sun is out, skies are blue" I would have no reason to take it at anything other than face value, or to dispute that point. But you could write the same thing and have a different, or multiple meanings. A "blue sky" may represent a happy day, or coming out of a depression, etc.
Again, though, I don't think this is what you mean, so my response will just circle back around to:
You view The Bible as completely inerrant and as 100% valid and accurate history. I do not (while acknowledging it is not devoid of history.)
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No matter how much it may "speak to you" to say it is, my observation of it being blue is fact. It is what I mean -- and your reinterpretation of said facts are irrelevant.
Again, yes. If you read The Bible as a simple, two-dimensional history textbook with no deeper meaning, with no symbolism, etc., you'd be correct in this statement. I just do not look at it that way. I see it as having layers of meaning and having a richness in depth and purpose.
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