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Bear in mind, there is no mystery as to the origins of the Trinity, nor is there any secret for how this aberrant doctrine emerged. The doctrine of the Trinity was forged out of the crucible of the Catholic Church long after the Christian century. It is, therefore, no wonder that this pagan doctrine was unknown to authors of the New Testament (click here to see list). Church history reveals that it was not until three hundred years after the birth of Christianity that the doctrine of the Bianity (325 C.E.) and Trinity (381 C.E.) received formal approval in the Christian community. These well documented events occurred under circumstances rife with contention, political agitation, and radical dissension in the early Church.
In essence, the Jewish people never believed in a Trinity, and the Church adopted it under enormous political pressure from the most pagan segments of the young Catholic Church. Understandably, missionaries undertake a formidable task when they seek to prove this fourth century doctrine from a radically monotheistic Torah which is timeless. Let’s examine your business associate’s claim.
...There is an enormous difficulty with the interpretation that the name Elohim signifies a sort of plurality in the godhead; for if Elohim implies a plurality of persons, how can missionaries explain that the identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, the Torah says,... - Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God
I like that article. I LOVE how it cuts to the point and sums it up nicely when discussing the "business associate" who feels they have a grasp of a Hebrew word and co-opt it for their theological beliefs in English:
You can rest assured that the Hebrew tongue is a foreign language to your business associate, and that both of her contentions are erroneous.
(R. Singer, Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity in the Name of God? Why is God's Name "Elohim" Plural?: Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God)
But knowing an ancient language is not always a barrier to good study - I think it helps tremendously and there are definitely roadblocks that will stop one in his/her tracks, but it is not required: as long as one has some good resources. I personally think it's a requirement for certain types of study, but I would hate for people to miss out on this literature if they don't have the time or desire to invest in language acquisition. Singer notes that:
(w)hile her first assertion can be easily explained away by her lack of familiarity with the biblical language, her second point cannot.
(Ibid.)
Basically, even someone who does not comprehend Biblical Hebrew should be able to work through the problem they have created - an entirely foreign concept to the Bible, not to mention the ancient Israelites:
Her latter comment that the plural suffix in Elohim is indicative of “a plural form of three†is particularly preposterous, and illustrates the desperation and frustration some Trinitarians display in their rash effort to defend this alien Church creed.
(Ibid.)
As a good summation of the problem of the "Trinitarian Claim" it works. I would disagree, however, with much of the remainder of Singer's article - though I realize it is written from a distinctly religious and Jewish perspective. It does not do the subject justice, unfortunately.
Bear in mind, there is no mystery as to the origins of the Trinity, nor is there any secret for how this aberrant doctrine emerged. The doctrine of the Trinity was forged out of the crucible of the Catholic Church long after the Christian century. It is, therefore, no wonder that this pagan doctrine was unknown to authors of the New Testament (click here to see list). Church history reveals that it was not until three hundred years after the birth of Christianity that the doctrine of the Bianity (325 C.E.) and Trinity (381 C.E.) received formal approval in the Christian community. These well documented events occurred under circumstances rife with contention, political agitation, and radical dissension in the early Church.
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Originally Posted by omega2xx
When it was accepted is irrelevant. The theology is reinforced in the Bible. The Trinity is not a pagan doctrine.
The theology is not reinforced in the bible and yes, it does matter when it was accepted...
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In essence, the Jewish people never believed in a Trinity, and the Church adopted it under enormous political pressure from the most pagan segments of the young Catholic Church. Understandably, missionaries undertake a formidable task when they seek to prove this fourth century doctrine from a radically monotheistic Torah which is timeless. Let’s examine your business associate’s claim.
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The Jews rejected may things the Bible teaches. It is still irrelevant what the church or man did. The trinity is taught in the Bible.
Are you that "business associate"?...It doesn't state that the Jews REJECTED the Trinity, it states that they NEVER BELIEVED in it in the first place, and neither did the early Christian church...After all, Judaism came way before Christianity....Soooo....
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...There is an enormous difficulty with the interpretation that the name Elohim signifies a sort of plurality in the godhead;
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Not true. "Im" is a plural ending in Hebrew.
No, not always...Considering that the verb and adjective following Elohim in Genesis are in the singular and not in the plural...Here are some words in Hebrew that are singular, however, possess the -im ending, Pan-im (face, not "faces"), shamay-im (sky, not "skies"), ma-im (water, not "waters"), cha-im (life, not "lives"), and there are many more...
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...for if Elohim implies a plurality of persons, how can missionaries explain that the identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses,
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Where?
Exodus :7
1.The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker.
The Jewish sages learn Hebrew like scholar do---It is called study.
Nope...Pretty much it is there native tongue, and where the Rabbis that don't have Hebrew as their native tongue, these have learned it in all its nuances from the time of young childhood...And the fact that the Talmud is written by the Sages and contradicts what you say, pretty much says that you do not understand what you think you know...
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The problem with that is that angels have no creative ability and we don't know for sure if the angels had been created at that time.
It doesn't say that they created, it says that G-d took counsel...Everything was created on the first day, including the Hosts...
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Irrelevant. When it is used, it is still a plural. Do you kinow owhy God useus 3 names?
I am sure you can tell me which three that they are...
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Where?
Exodus 7:1
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All of the names of God are translated from the original language.
The theology is not reinforced in the bible and yes, it does matter when it was accepted...
It is reinforced in the Bible if you can understand it.
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Are you that "business associate"?...It doesn't state that the Jews REJECTED the Trinity, it states that they NEVER BELIEVED in it in the first place,
I have never said d otherwise.
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and neither did the early Christian church...After all, Judaism came way before Christianity....Soooo....
However the church did eventually accept it based on Scripture and first does not mean right.
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No, not always...Considering that the verb and adjective following Elohim in Genesis are in the singular and not in the plural...Here are some words in Hebrew that are singular, however, possess the -im ending, Pan-im (face, not "faces"), shamay-im (sky, not "skies"), ma-im (water, not "waters"), cha-im (life, not "lives"), and there are many more...
You can spin it anyway you want to but "im" is always a plural ending.
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Exodus :7
1.The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker.
It only seem boring to those who can't refute what I say and are shown that they are wrong about the Bible and about Christianity.
If it is so boring, put me on ignore.
Your best post so far.
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Your best post so far.
