The real reasons for the overall decline in church attendence (marriage, God)
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Thankfully it was stopped, but that just shows the level of rage, anger and lack of happiness out there.
I am not sure it does. Statistically crimes, especially violent crimes, are down over all. "The better angels of our nature" is a very good text on this matter if you wish to learn more. If.
There has been an increase in the depth and horror of the minority of EXTREME crimes however, like the mass shootings you have mentioned. But that does not speak to violence and anger and rage in the world as a whole. The statistics on crimes as a whole speak to that.
Further you can not assume the slight increase in these shootings is only to do with an increase in rage and anger and so forth. It is possible there are other sources.
For one example it could be that the rage and anger is the SAME as it was 30 years ago.... but the access to weaponry with which to perpetrate it in the form of violent crimes is easier and cheaper.
For another example it could be that the rage and anger is the SAME as it was 30 years ago.... but the increasing demands on resources and time in our world means a lot more of it goes unnoticed, untreated, and under the radar until it is too late.
You often try to link a bad statistic with a simplistic and agenda driven correlation, but you rarely (ever?) have anything to back up the links you make.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
How can I answer your question when you won't even give me a sample of these heaps of anti-Christian evidence?
Would that you would be honest enough to take your own advice here. As how can we answer YOUR positions when you keep telling us how you have "100s" of proofs for god (your words) but continue to tell us you will not be bothered telling us what they are (again your words)?
It goes two ways you know? Not just one rule for you, and one for everyone else.
Violent urban crime has decreased for roughly four decades now (slight uptick last year only). You've been corrected on this before. Your intransigent insistence that it is increasing is nothing but an instance of availability bias.
The uptick appears to concide with the recent downtick in church attendance. I don't think that is a coincidence. Even if the stats show a decrease, the quality of violence vs quantity is particularly disturbing.
A person doesn't commit mass murder if they are satisfied with life. It is an extreme display of extreme depression and unhappiness. If you look worldwide at countries with low levels of depression, they are often countries where community, family and culture provide a strong foundation and value of self-worth and identity. In the US, the church has been the provider of that foundation. Take it away, and social problems arise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
At least you're not making up the increase in suicide rates, although I haven't seen you document evidence that the reason is less church attendance and/or less piety. That is just another form of confirmation bias. For example, the highest rise in suicide by ethnic group was for Native Americans, whose rate of participation in Christianity is relatively low and always has been. Even when Christian missionaries tried to circumvent their culture and force Christianity on them, it was lamented that adult graduates of white-run "Indian Schools" went back to the res and most of them immediately "relapsed" into "barbarism". By your logic, Indians should have been suicidal before they ever knew about Christianity, yet Christianity had to mount an ambitious plan to convert them, and it didn't stick anyway.
Given facts like that, failure to attend church would be one of the lease likely causes of suicide.
Not according to this study:
Quote:
Despite major improvements and advances made in the treatment of mental illness, suicide is still a pervasive health problem. In fact, this may be due to clinicians’ lack of effective diagnostic tools and methods to diagnose those at risk of suicide — prevention methods haven’t improved in the past 50 years. Now, new research published in JAMA Psychiatry suggests attending a religious service could help prevent suicide, at least in women.
Researchers analyzed data from nearly 90,000 middle-aged female participants in the Nurses' Health Study, most of whom reported being practicing Catholics or Protestants. Researchers used this information to look at associations between religious service attendance and suicide from 1996 to June 2010. There were 36 suicides during this time. Among the findings, women who attended religious services at least once a week had a fivefold lower risk of committing suicide compared to those who never attended services. Researchers also found that women who attended religious services were less likely to use antidepressants. The study also revealed that they were less likely be current smokers and more likely to be married.
If you look worldwide at countries with low levels of depression, they are often countries where community, family and culture provide a strong foundation and value of self-worth and identity. In the US, the church has been the provider of that foundation. Take it away, and social problems arise.
The Scandinavian countries, which are full of godless heathens, have the highest levels of happiness in the world. And they have very low crime, poverty, and homelessness rates compared to the US.
In general, the more religious a country is, the worse it is.
The Scandinavian countries, which are full of godless heathens, have the highest levels of happiness in the world. And they have very low crime, poverty, and homelessness rates compared to the US.
In general, the more religious a country is, the worse it is.
Not really, those countries have some pretty high suicide rates which is even more alarming since other contributing factors like economic status are low there.
The main reason people don't go to church is to avoid conviction. They don't want to face their sins and shortcomings, so they avoid people and places where it might be pointed out. There are other reasons, but most excuses are silly. For example- "there are hypocrits in church"- well, don't go to the grocery store or the ballgame, because there are hypocrits there too! In fact, don't look in the mirror either. We are all hypocrits to some degree- some want to become a better person or Christian- others find it easier to stay the same. Some may have been really hurt by the church, but all churches are not the same.
Not really, those countries have some pretty high suicide rates which is even more alarming since other contributing factors like economic status are low there.
According to this list, Iceland and Finland have a higher suicide rate than the US, but Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have a lower rate than the US.
All of those countries are highly secular compared to the US.
It's simply not true that Less Religion = More Suicide.
Now, someone who believes that life is meaningless without religion probably IS at greater risk of suicide upon deconversion. Religion can be addictive.
I am not sure it does. Statistically crimes, especially violent crimes, are down over all. "The better angels of our nature" is a very good text on this matter if you wish to learn more. If.
There has been an increase in the depth and horror of the minority of EXTREME crimes however, like the mass shootings you have mentioned. But that does not speak to violence and anger and rage in the world as a whole. The statistics on crimes as a whole speak to that.
Further you can not assume the slight increase in these shootings is only to do with an increase in rage and anger and so forth. It is possible there are other sources.
For one example it could be that the rage and anger is the SAME as it was 30 years ago.... but the access to weaponry with which to perpetrate it in the form of violent crimes is easier and cheaper.
For another example it could be that the rage and anger is the SAME as it was 30 years ago.... but the increasing demands on resources and time in our world means a lot more of it goes unnoticed, untreated, and under the radar until it is too late.
I have to disagree with this. When I was a kid, at 12 years old I legally owned weapons and could buy ammunition for them at any hardware store. Both were relatively cheap and easily available.
Perception of the level of crime has increased due to advances in communication technology. Anyone witnessing criminal activity can instantly inform millions of people while it is still occurring.
I think that rage, anger and frustration have increased over the years, in large part due to a sense that people are being overwhelmed with more and more rules being imposed on them by others, and a feeling that they are no longer in control of their lives. Committing acts of personal violence is a last desperate measure of demonstrating some ability to exert control.
It certainly does not help that we take young men, train them to kill and send them off to wars...and when they come back, they are suddenly expected to return to conforming to a society where violence and killing are not acceptable methods of dealing with problems...unfortunately, that is something that is not so easily 'turned off'.
You also have ZERO evidence that the following things are imaginary:
The Giant Extradimensional Space Crabs
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
The Invisible Pink Unicorn
The All Powerful Sky Hamster
The Tooth Fairy
The Easter Bunny
The All Powerful Burrito Creature
Santa Claus
Leprechauns
Allah
Thor
Ra
Odin
Ahura Mazda
Zeus
Super Man
Batman The All Knowing Cheese Monster that Lives in the Center of the Moon
The Matrix
Russell's Teapot
Alf (I kill me!)
The Yip Yip Aliens from Sesame Street
Oscar the Grouch
Middle Earth
Et Cetera.
The All Knowing Cheese Monster that Lives in the Center of the Moon isn't real?! Now my life has no purpose
Getting out of house at all lowers suicide rates. Going to church doesn't mean people actually believe that stuff.
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